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Thread: General Election - June 8th

  1. #76
    SCARY !!! I3R0K3N7FEET's Avatar
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    Slightly disappointed about the lack of Tory debate... Sums up Mrs May completely. All people can do is attack Blairite- New Labour... Rather than playing devils advocate and talking of past failings, why not actually be reasonable and consider things as they are now?

    http://www.jeremyforlabour.com/pledges

    http://www.labour.org.uk/index.php/10-pledges

    Economy
    1. Will Jeremy Corbyn will Bankrupt Britain.
    No. His policies are based on the proven nordic model and mainstream economics.

    2. But he is saying he will spend 500 Billion pounds at a time where the UK needs to 'live within its means'.
    The Current Tory Government Borrowed 430 Billion between 2010-2015, which is more than what Labour did during 1997-2010 (429BN). The conservatives were also 16bn over their projected 52BN borrowing for 2016 (total of 68billion) and borrowing is/was forecast to rise as Brexit is currently expected to cost the UK around 133 BN. Despite the cuts to public services causing a crush, there is still money, but the Tories are fiddling with it and are making it disappear into private corporations and businesses by starting pet projects and dismantling existing systems and infrastructure. (one immediate example would be the benefit sanctions scheme which ended up costing nearly nearly 100M over the amount that they saved by implementing the sanctions (saving of around 150m, costing around 233M, while ESA assessments has resulted in a hand over of 1.6bn to private health assessment companies. 1 2 3. Another would be the cuts to schools, which is actually HUGE, (my city alone stands to potentially lose 359 teachers), while they claim to be spending 'record amounts on schools', much of this budget is to open new grammar schools and 'free schools', which may sound good on paper, but free schools are often privatised a few years after being opened. 1 2

    The Labour party however, will use this money to invest in schools and a national education service, a national investment bank to back small businesses, and hey, 4 extra bank holidays! Also, not all of it will come from 'borrowing', https://www.theguardian.com/politics...mobilise-500bn

    But where will Labour find money to reduce the deficit and pay off the debt?
    The Tories have slashed corporation tax from 28%, to 19% and is set to drop to 17% (depending on the outcome of the election.) They say that this is to encourage big business, and more jobs in the UK. However this isn't true and the rate of business hasn't changed. This change in corporation tax has resulted in over 60bn giveaway. 1 2 3 Despite failing to clamp down on Tax evasion. The accepted Tax Gap according to government statistics sits around 37BN in illegal evasion, and 25BN in unpaid tax, however some economists put the true figure of offshore hoarding of wealth well over 100BN a year. Let's remember, despite the Tory 29BN cut to spending. The current deficit is only 69BN.

    But Labour will raise Taxes?
    The Tories are planning on raising VAT another 2.5% which will affect each household to the order of 2500 extra spending each year. This is literally the most unfair change that they can implement on the country and it will have a devastating effect on any household earning less than 20K (50% of the population). Labour will reverse Corporation tax, and implement a 50p top-rate tax for those earning over 150K pa. This will mean that the situation for 95% of the UK will remain the same or be better off under labour, especially with the 10ph -REAL- Living wage. When the Tories say that Labour will raise taxes, they mean 'They will raise the taxes for us and our mates', not the UK public.

    Security
    I like Jeremy Corbyn but he is a security risk, terrorist sympathiser.
    No. Jeremy Corbyn says that it is important to have diplomatic solutions wherever they are available and use of force should always be a LAST RESORT. The incidents with the IRA, and HAMAS are over-sensationalised and it has already been revealed that other leading ministers at the time were holding 'secret meetings' with the said parties, where Jeremy Corbyn does things openly and transparently. The media hold this against him to twist your view.
    But he wants to get rid of nuclear weapons.
    Not spending 200billion on something that we dont really need seems like a good idea to me. With Theresa May willing to blow things up at the command of Trump, I think it would be a good idea to dispose of these global threats, especially since they arent reliable. Corbyn has said that he will not renew trident, not SCRAP it outright. This means a slow dismantling and shelving of Trident for a rainy day. Trident missiles have a range of 7500-9000 miles, which means they are a threat to everywhere on earth from anywhere on earth (except the middle of the pacific I guess) the only time we can ever justify the use of nuclear weapons would be in the event of a global/extraterrestrial threat. Renewing trident will mean that this threat will exist well past 2060. The time to end nuclear weapons is now. Studies also prove that 'deterrence' actually exacerbates escalation, something that is happening now in the world. We need a sensible leader, and Corbyn, despite his lack of willingness to attack May personally (which would be very easy to do) is not a weak leader, and is not a stupid leader. Instead Labour will modernise, and fully equip conventional forces for their role in the world.

    Immigration
    What is Labours position on Immigration
    Well, The truth is, immigration, the crush, and the perception of it being a problem is completely false, as it was for brexit and still is. The reason why it is a non-problem is because the UK has, and always has had complete controls of its borders regarding immigration and the additional workers are vital to key industries. The problem regarding employment was the undercutting of wages by employers outsourcing work to gangs that would accept lower than the UK minimum wages. That is not the migrant workers faults, that is the industries taking advantage of people, and giving others the work. The pressure on national services including healthcare, too, is false. Anywhere within the EU, UK citizens are entitled to free health care. UK expats too, enjoy free healthcare. This is a mutual trade off. If you dont want foreigners to use our health service, then dont expect to use the health services abroad. Immigration has also highlighted the housing problem in the UK, again, not migrants fault, this is the governments fault. < this is actually such a dumb argument. do you enjoy reading the daily mail?

    But surely we should implement a points based immigration system?
    No. Selective immigration causes a brain drain in other countries, countries that train, educate and pay for on the basis of their own countries needs. IF the UK selectively take the talent from other countries it would exacerbate poverty and cause regressive development in those other countries which have a desperate need for highly skilled workers. Instead, the National Education Service will allow people of all ages to retrain, and give people the opportunity to fill the high-skill work roles that our country needs rather than outsourcing them, something that should be done to top-up a need, rather than to completely fill up those roles.

    Does this mean open borders still?
    Not Likely, a slow down in immigration is needed because there is a lot of work to be done nationally, something that the Tories are rushing to crash. However, the Immigration policy will likely remain fairly lenient, and in the event of a Labour win, there will likely be a mild tradeoff regarding free-movement of people via a fairly soft-brexit.

    Politics
    But Labour will cause Chaos?
    This is just Tory spin. Labour is a democratic party, and democracy is inherently a little chaotic. It allows everyones voice to be heard, and sometimes it can take time to make things seem a little more coherent rather than an authoritarian come dictator stance Mrs May presents. This is actually a strength of the Labour party, not a weakness. Labour is by no means perfect, but they are far better than the Lying group of paedophiles and fraudsters of the Tory Party.


    So seriously, Any questions? Kinda lost against people that are still convinced that the Tories are the only party to vote for.
    listen to her answer this question.
    https://audioboom.com/posts/5862107-...ource=facebook
    This is why she won't stand in TV debates, because without a script, she is ****ing useless
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB21zPfeS1Y
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A2cx0A5QVY
    A rather convincing argument from a very sound mind
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/25/vote-labour-jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may

    Hell, even the hard right Peter Hitchens voices his respect for JC in light of an inadequate Conservative party
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...ervatives.html

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSin-dA3PGc
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1l1XGiXgo0
    Last edited by I3R0K3N7FEET; 2 Days Ago at 04:42.

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  3. #77
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    I have noticed that the Tories entire election campaign so far has been "trust us, we are better than Labour." Yet at no point do they bother to substantiate why we should trust them nor why they are better than Labour.

    Frankly I'm sick to death of listening to the crooked way the Tories debate politics.

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    Yeah but, Tony Blair was/is a rat. The guy would rob his own grandmother. And his wife is ugly, and I never trust someone with an ugly wife.

    That being said, I wouldn't regard any politician much better.

    And I don't agree with your countries with points based immigration sytems point, at least not all of them. I lived in New Zealand for a while and it's much better than the UK to live in, far better quality of life. I would have stayed but guess what, they have a points based immigration system!
    If you really really really really love me. You'd never make me hang out with your family. Your mum sucks and your dad really hates me. When I try to borrow money he berates me. Somehow he thinks that I'm too old for you, 'cause you're nineteen and I'm fifty two.

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    Unfortunately the facts are there against points based immigration. I won't deny that it could have benefits for the country, but it is rather immoral, and unfair. I personally do think that there is a requirement to have an element of selective bias especially in regard to background checks and desperately needed job roles, but i don't think that that a carbon copy system will deliver the positive discrimination that it presents itself to be. Our country should be looking internally to fill roles first. Also the brain drain thing is a huge problem especially in regards to countries like Brazil, eastern European, and south Asia areas where they have high quality training, but shortage of trained professionals especially doctors, that tend to move to higher paying countries

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    Just read Green party are officially withdrawing from the general election to help Labour beat the Conservatives.

    Proud Labour supporter already here.
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    Only in one seat...

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7701081.html

    Slightly less bold
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravetart View Post
    Only in one seat...

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7701081.html

    Slightly less bold
    The green party hold a fair number of votes despite only having one MP right now, the reason why green could hold the key is because there are two simple facts.

    The inherent Labour supporters are often the most disenfranchised and are likely to fill the majority of the ranks of non-voters. This is something that needs to change. Right now more than ever it is important to get more people voting, the last general election saw a 66% turnout! An additional 10% could easily make the difference. Secondly, the number of green voters (are highly unlikely to vote ukip or tory) are enough to close the gap between Labour an Conservative votes.

    Though the terrible thing I can foresee would be if we are in a situation where the Tories tactical swindling ends up causing a result where Labour get the largest vote share, but fewer MPs than the Conservatives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by I3R0K3N7FEET View Post
    Unfortunately the facts are there against points based immigration. I won't deny that it could have benefits for the country, but it is rather immoral, and unfair.
    You see, being the "victim" of this if you like. When I was younger and came back from New Zealand, pretty quickly I realised that my prospects and quality of life would not be the same as they would have been had a remained over there. I actually became pretty depressed for a while.

    So yes, on one side you could say that it is unfair that I do not have the right to live and work there.

    The other side of it, it is their country, and they should be able to pick and choose who they like, and to be honest, although it's something that went against me I don't blame them.

    And of course the quality of life they have may have nothing to do with immigration, but I can only compare with here and there, and the different immigration policies both have.
    If you really really really really love me. You'd never make me hang out with your family. Your mum sucks and your dad really hates me. When I try to borrow money he berates me. Somehow he thinks that I'm too old for you, 'cause you're nineteen and I'm fifty two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by I3R0K3N7FEET View Post
    The green party hold a fair number of votes despite only having one MP right now, the reason why green could hold the key is because there are two simple facts.

    The inherent Labour supporters are often the most disenfranchised and are likely to fill the majority of the ranks of non-voters. This is something that needs to change. Right now more than ever it is important to get more people voting, the last general election saw a 66% turnout! An additional 10% could easily make the difference. Secondly, the number of green voters (are highly unlikely to vote ukip or tory) are enough to close the gap between Labour an Conservative votes.

    Though the terrible thing I can foresee would be if we are in a situation where the Tories tactical swindling ends up causing a result where Labour get the largest vote share, but fewer MPs than the Conservatives.
    Absolutely, all I meant, is that it's only one seat they are giving up, rather than not fielding any candidates at all. It would pretty much be political suicide. Saves them some funds for the warchest at a later date.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravetart View Post
    I literally just lol'd

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    Tory MP's Private Company in Charge of Election votes and counts

    http://stematthewmurray.blogspot.co....charge-of.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by cold fusion View Post
    I have noticed that the Tories entire election campaign so far has been "trust us, we are better than Labour." Yet at no point do they bother to substantiate why we should trust them nor why they are better than Labour.

    Frankly I'm sick to death of listening to the crooked way the Tories debate politics.
    Then this will cheer you immensely

    With Theresa May the snowflake in charge, this is health and safety gone mad


    All your spoon are belong to us

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