Brexit

[theste]

No. leave means leave

[RandomPC]

Here we are at last, the 29th of March 2019. So tell me, is Brexit everything that you dreamed it would be?

[FunkY]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47400679

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/b...cision-2594727

[Aaron]

[FunkY]

Talk about a slow motion

[omega]

I am openly against Uranium/plutonium for use as fuel. I believe that we should be investing in Thorium based fuel as it is 1. relatively abundant. 2. significantly safer. 3. we now have the technology to utilise it.

Oh me too, I'm totally against calling nuclear "Green" when it needs 10,000 years after decommissioning to be deemed "safe".

But it's not fossil, and we need power right now, so we're stuck with it, for the time being at least.

[I3R0K3N7FEET]

I am openly against Uranium/plutonium for use as fuel. I believe that we should be investing in Thorium based fuel as it is 1. relatively abundant. 2. significantly safer. 3. we now have the technology to utilise it.

[omega]

There are many 'better' systems than neoliberalism, but there are systems in place trying to hold it together, including people like you making half minded comments such as

'Capitalism and Democracy might not be perfect but show us something better and ill eat my hat.'

Half brained because you linked 'capitalism and democracy' assuming the two are mutually exclusive?? Also, democracy is pure chaos, there have been many great minds on it, and while 'pure democracy', something which people seem to believe we have, is NEVER going to happen simply because voters are too ignorant. In theory, the parliamentary system would actually be 'the best' system, were it not already filled with non-elected peers in the house of lords, and the established control the political elite has ascertained through history. A representative democracy works as a filter by people that know or should know the details of such things we vote on. The biggest issue currently with MPs is the vetting process. Labour's system for example is completely democratic, while the Conservatives are picked behind curtains. In both cases, the vetting process is very limited (as revealed recently) it might only be later on when we find out that the Labour MP is actually an illiterate numpty, or the conservative MP is actually some earl of Fensington who is really a non-dom landlord with conflicts on interests left right and centre, with fingers in all sorts of businesses (and children) after graduating from Eton.

neoliberalism and sustainable living for humans and animals, the environment, and global-warming, is simply IMPOSSIBLE. The world is carbon hungry and we can not sustain the use of carbon based fuels anymore and the richest economies will be the hardest hit when they no-longer can get the resources they need.

In regards to alternative economic models, there are many around, and just because your life is relatively comfortable now, doesnt mean that maintaining the status quo is better than any alternative, when current predictions have recently been revised to suggest that the world could in fact be inhospitable within the next century. Do you plan to have children? Because your grandchildren may not have a world to live in unless something changes.

This is a fantastic piece by the well respected George Monbiot
https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...george-monbiot

We don't need carbon / fossil fuels. We have nuclear and green energy sources. Wind, solar & tidal will all take off massively soon (TM), and it's already begun.
This year the combined total of nuclear and green production outweighed gas / oil / coal for the first time.

Water will be the real issue of the next century. Clean de-salinated un-polluted water.

[I3R0K3N7FEET]

There are many 'better' systems than neoliberalism, but there are systems in place trying to hold it together, including people like you making half minded comments such as

'Capitalism and Democracy might not be perfect but show us something better and ill eat my hat.'

Half brained because you linked 'capitalism and democracy' assuming the two are mutually exclusive?? Also, democracy is pure chaos, there have been many great minds on it, and while 'pure democracy', something which people seem to believe we have, is NEVER going to happen simply because voters are too ignorant. In theory, the parliamentary system would actually be 'the best' system, were it not already filled with non-elected peers in the house of lords, and the established control the political elite has ascertained through history. A representative democracy works as a filter by people that know or should know the details of such things we vote on. The biggest issue currently with MPs is the vetting process. Labour's system for example is completely democratic, while the Conservatives are picked behind curtains. In both cases, the vetting process is very limited (as revealed recently) it might only be later on when we find out that the Labour MP is actually an illiterate numpty, or the conservative MP is actually some earl of Fensington who is really a non-dom landlord with conflicts on interests left right and centre, with fingers in all sorts of businesses (and children) after graduating from Eton.

neoliberalism and sustainable living for humans and animals, the environment, and global-warming, is simply IMPOSSIBLE. The world is carbon hungry and we can not sustain the use of carbon based fuels anymore and the richest economies will be the hardest hit when they no-longer can get the resources they need.

In regards to alternative economic models, there are many around, and just because your life is relatively comfortable now, doesnt mean that maintaining the status quo is better than any alternative, when current predictions have recently been revised to suggest that the world could in fact be inhospitable within the next century. Do you plan to have children? Because your grandchildren may not have a world to live in unless something changes.

This is a fantastic piece by the well respected George Monbiot
https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...george-monbiot

[Jackster]

Capitalism and Democracy might not be perfect but show us something better and ill eat my hat.

[omega]

Brexit. 52% voted to leave the EU, so in a socialist society you'd have to deal with those 52% of people contributing little but hot air it was more of a tongue in cheek comment.

[I3R0K3N7FEET]

I think we need to be very careful not to hop between Capitalism and Socialism. For the most part, capitalism works. It's not a great system, but it works.
You do need to remember that 52% of voters said "Leave". Is that really the kind of Socialist society you want to be a part of? I really don't.

(don't mistake my chopping down your quote for me dismissing the rest of your post, because I do agree with most of it )

I agree. I wasn't intending to hop between them, but I do believe that considering the situation of the world, we need to start taking steps towards sustainable living in regards to economy and population, and that capitalism at its very core, is not sustainable. Socialism, too, is flawed, and there is much in socialism that is completely missing from capitalism which needs to be ensured and protected. also, not sure what your 52% vote really refers to however, you didnt mention my comments on democracy, so I dont really understand the context. Personally, I think that the parlimentary process is actually very good, despite the institutionalised corruption, which, with a clean slate, could be ironed out.

[omega]

Capitalism is dying, and what that looks like is financial desperation and war. Socialism it not the answer directly, but it is certainly a start. Brexit in its current form will be a huge step backwards into the stone age.

I think we need to be very careful not to hop between Capitalism and Socialism. For the most part, capitalism works. It's not a great system, but it works.
You do need to remember that 52% of voters said "Leave". Is that really the kind of Socialist society you want to be a part of? I really don't.

(don't mistake my chopping down your quote for me dismissing the rest of your post, because I do agree with most of it )

[I3R0K3N7FEET]

We voted to leave, we should leave, we will leave.

Rant all you like, that doesn't change the fact that the government lied, and are deceiving the public and are not following the correct, lawful processes. Referenda in the UK are NOT, and are NEVER LEGALLY BINDING. The UK is not a DEMOCRACY, we have a REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY.

The Brexit referendum was not legally binding. The correct course of action should have been, on a leave vote, the government should have commissioned an independent feasibility study into the implications of leaving the EU. That study should have then been presented to parliament to which they would have then had a vote based on the results of that study. If they voted to leave, they should have then triggered Article 50, and began negotiations. The results of which should then be presented to the UK public for a 2nd (leave/remain) vote. Finally, Parliament then would have a final vote based on the deal/2nd ref, and would retain full power to overturn public consensus if they, (MPs, and those in a position that should know better) felt it was necessary. That is their job.

Regardless of whether you understand or not, that is the truth.

The UK vote was under heavy propaganda, lies, and misguidance, and if we were leaving under the proper procedure, I would not be complaining at all. I personally am not even against brexit 'done properly'. But lets face it, as the majority of people expected, the Tories are not capable of negotiating a deal for Britain as they are too concerned about protecting their own personal interests and the interests of big business. The 'deal' David Cameron negotiated before the referendum was based on retaining special privileges for 'the city of London', a misleading title in itself which not many people understand. Because now the EU are committed to clamping down on tax evasion, look at the Tories run scared, and trying harder to undermine that. The UK can not remain ignorant to what our government does, and while I am definitely not 'hard left', politically, the hard left certainly is needed right now to balance out the rubbish going on in this country. Capitalism is dying, and what that looks like is financial desperation and war. Socialism it not the answer directly, but it is certainly a start. Brexit in its current form will be a huge step backwards into the stone age.

[Spaceboy]

There's a petition going around to withdraw article 50

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/202465

Sign it if you feel it'll do anything