View Full Version : Battlefield 2141 comes with spyware
Devils-Blood
18-10-06, 19:00
The game is being released with built in spyware that will gather information about you for advertising/marketing sites to tailor adverts on what you like. This spyware will track your on-line activities.
They don't only charge a arm and a leg for the game but they get paid for giving information to ad sites about you.
Thats breaking our privacy, and is breaking some law, im sure!
kristoficus
18-10-06, 19:55
Damn... Im almost regretting my £20 pre-order for it :-/
Yet another sign of EA caring ONLY about money. With a stunt like this they obviously dont give a damn about the people who PAY for their games. Without us they wouldnt exist and now they have the cheek to milk us for more?
Lets all complain to the (umm... who should be complain to?)
Devils-Blood
19-10-06, 00:38
And it will give discrete in game adverts as well while playing. EA reason for this it helps cover support cost. Well isn't that already factored into the price of the game.
kristoficus
19-10-06, 01:12
EA... Support costs? Well they are blatantly lying there. They have a 1 man support team. And it's not really a man but more a banana chomping monkey.
Who are EA kidding? They give support...yeah right.
DrunkDwarf
19-10-06, 13:45
From what i read its been blown out of proportion...
I read the article on The Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/18/battlefield_2142_ad-ware_rumpus/) yesterday.
And everyones making a fuss about the line \"may record your Internet Protocol address and other anonymous information\"... which is no different than what every single website does when you visit them, your IP, browser, operating system is stored in the web logs every time you view a page... EA is simply doing the exact same thing, using the same details, your IP address (which you freely give any website you visit), and game-related information that does not invade your privacy.
People just throw around the terms spyware/adware around too easily, and get all flustered because they think their privacy is being invaded, when its not.
Electronic Arts statement (unedited):
The advertising program in Battlefield 2142 does not access any files which are not directly related to the game. It does not capture personal data such as cookies, account login detail, or surfing history.
BF 2142 delivers ads by region. The advertising system uses a player's IP address to determine the region of the player, assisting to serve the appropriate ads by region and language. For instance, a player in Paris might be presented with ads in French. The information collected will not be repurposed for other uses.
Battlefield 2142 also tracks \"impression data\" related to in-game advertisements: location of a billboard in the game, brand advertised, duration of advertisement impression, etc. This information is used to help advertisers qualify the reach of a given advertisement.
Feel free to link to something from EA that states otherwise, and ill eat my words, ive only read the above article on the matter.
kristoficus
19-10-06, 21:56
Yeah after reading more it does seem like its been magnified a bit... But elrobin is right - EA charge us a hefty price to play their games, and yet they are throwing ads at us and getting a large advertisement revenue... Like they dont get enough money by ripping us gamers off, they have the cheek to milk us for money beyond the grave.
DrunkDwarf
20-10-06, 01:50
[quote:7b2a2fcc10=\"ÈL ® ö B ì Ñ\"]ye but look, they use your IP to determin your location....so they can throw adds at you, they get paid for doing that.[/quote:7b2a2fcc10]
Determining your location (thats not your address, but the location of your ISP) based on your IP is something any website can do, and many website banner systems do that already, this is no different. :)
[quote:7b2a2fcc10=\"ÈL ® ö B ì Ñ\"]
We should be paid or discounted for having to view that crap.
Won't be putting a single EA game on my PC untill they remove this.
Thank god I pirate their NFS games, makes me feel better.[/quote:7b2a2fcc10]
You pay full price a ticket to go see a football match, and still have to view the sponsors/advertising/etc plastered everywhere.
You pay full price for a cinema ticket or movie, and still have to view product placement within it, and theres the adverts at the beginning.
Its something thats all around us already, people already accept it, why should games be any different? The only difference is that EA has told everyone about it, instead of just including it and not considering it worth mentioning, where people would barely have noticed it.
If you expect to be paid anything, then you're living in a dream world lol :D. If you expect to get a discount, then unfortunately that is not how the world works, you'll get no discount of any kind, and that will not change anytime soon.
Banners in a game are nothing, they dont impact on your ability to enjoy the game, you'll barely notice them, so i really dont see what the fuss is about, all i see is ignorance.
If you want to spit the dummy over something so trivial and harmless, then so be it, nobody will stop you, and i doubt EA, or any other company who chooses to do the same, will notice, there will be enough people that'll buy it regardless.
[quote:7b2a2fcc10=\"kristoficus\"]Yeah after reading more it does seem like its been magnified a bit... But elrobin is right - EA charge us a hefty price to play their games, and yet they are throwing ads at us and getting a large advertisement revenue... Like they dont get enough money by ripping us gamers off, they have the cheek to milk us for money beyond the grave.[/quote:7b2a2fcc10]
Uh.. its not quite nearly that bad, if they were charging the gamers extra for the banners, then id see your point, but the price wont change from the standard, you lose nothing from the enjoyment of the game, so its still worth the same amount of money, so they aren't milking more money out of you in the slightest, the price has not increased.
[Removed at the request of the author]
DrunkDwarf
20-10-06, 13:38
To come back to the point of not noticing the banners, if anything this is the main flaw in EA's plans.. as gamers in a FPS game such as this, would be far too focused on whats down their sights than whats on the banner on a far off wall... how many times do you stop for a second to see what that text on the wall is in the middle of a battle?
Imagine, you stop to have a look at a banner and think... Mmm... i fancy a McDonalds now... *BLAM*... damn it!!
People would be far too busy playing and enjoying the game to care about any adverts...
Devils-Blood
20-10-06, 15:54
The point is if somebody pays for a game it should come clean without any in game advertising. Its said that many web sites visited use banner ads and that is true, but thats how they raise revenue and they don't receive revenue direct from the person who clicks on the site. EA are getting revenue direct from the end user by the way of charging for a licence and then they want more with putting adverts into the game somebody has paid to play.
I always look at things in a different way. If they EA get away with doing what they are doing what will EA come up with next. How far will this advertising progress slowly grow. Its certain that it will cause a slow loss of our privacy until its too late to do anything about.
I take it the people who say its ignorance are young and don't really understand how these companies work. The public image is of a caring company, but behind the scenes its very different.
[Removed at the request of the author]
DrunkDwarf
20-10-06, 16:49
[quote:f396240171=\"Devils-Blood\"]The point is if somebody pays for a game it should come clean without any in game advertising. Its said that many web sites visited use banner ads and that is true, but thats how they raise revenue and they don't receive revenue direct from the person who clicks on the site. EA are getting revenue direct from the end user by the way of charging for a licence and then they want more with putting adverts into the game somebody has paid to play.[/quote:f396240171]
What about the example of sports matches where you've paid a lot of money for a ticket, or movies you've paid full price for that have product placements throughout? However wrong you may think this development is.. its not really anything new at all, its already common place, merely becoming more so.
[quote:f396240171=\"Devils-Blood\"]I always look at things in a different way. If they EA get away with doing what they are doing what will EA come up with next. How far will this advertising progress slowly grow. Its certain that it will cause a slow loss of our privacy until its too late to do anything about.[/quote:f396240171]
\"if they get away with\"... what they are doing is not \"wrong\", so they aren't going to be \"getting away with\" anything, otherwise they could be brought before the relevant regulatory body and stopped.
In regard to loss of privacy... what thinks you have privacy to begin with? Its all an illusion anyway. The difference here, is that EA has been good enough to tell you what they are doing, many games, especially MMO's etc have already been being far more invasive to your privacy, without anyone really taking any notice, nor seeming to care. Suddenly a company is honest about what it wants to do, instead of not telling you, and people suddenly get irate.
[quote:f396240171=\"Devils-Blood\"]I take it the people who say its ignorance are young and don't really understand how these companies work. The public image is of a caring company, but behind the scenes its very different.[/quote:f396240171]
They are not the Devil. They wont eat your babies. They dont sacrifice goats in order to have a profitable year.
People always like to paint big companies as the \"bad guys\"... but its simply business... they do what they can to make a profit, every new idea is researched and thought about before going into action, in such examples as this, im sure they would've been careful to look into what they legally can and cant do, what would be likely to get them into trouble, doing otherwise would only jeopardize the company, which means risking the amount of money they bring in, which is against their \"evil money making\" mentality. :roll:
The introduction of real billboards within games, is progress in my opinon, apply it to the prospect of a virtual online world, with real billboards, virtual shops you can go into a browse virtual representations of real products... realistic virtual representations of ourselves... i see that as progress.
To end, i gladly welcome real billboard advertising within appropriate games! bring it on i say! But it would have to be a suitable type of game, where advertising billboards would reasonably exist... seeing billboards in a fantasy setting with Elves and Dragons would be simply silly.
Devils-Blood
21-10-06, 01:35
Oh adverts while you watch a film I think not. Maybe the bit before the film. You are not paying for the adverts and you can enter when they have finished if you want to, you are not forced to watch the adverts, With the game they are there while you are playing. The next is like US tv where the programme stops for the advert, but within the game. With tv the adverts pay for the programmes.
And age has a lot to do with life experince, when some of you are older you will suddenly realise what I mean.
[Removed at the request of the author]
dont know if they will help any of you check it out
http://www.ggmania.com/?smsid=22553
I just ordered my copy from Amazon today, can't wait to see what it's like, my mate loves it.
Neah, I just ordered it, didn't cost anything, used some vouchers I had for Amazon.
My mate reckons it's brilliant, and I usually like all the games he does. He got me into BF2 in the first place. We used to run around in our little 2 man squad owning servers :)
well not had time to play demo but just put a order in for it just hoping it's as good or better then BF2
kristoficus
29-10-06, 09:23
Got the demo on release day, and instantly loved it. So i pre-ordered it through PCWorld that day for £19.99 (bargain). It's the 29th now and i still dont bloody have it... Anyone know what i can do? Have e-mailed them but seems cats got their toungue. Angers me that i can go into a PCWorld store right now and walk out with a copy... But when pre-ordering it i need to wait untill AFTER everyone else has one.
PS. On the site its deffo. \"in stock\"... has been for days.
I downloaded the demo but when I'd installed it and tried to run it I got some stupid error about a required file being missing, so I just deleted it.
Electric Monk
13-11-06, 21:57
[quote:fa6102b1b3=\"Homer 'Barley' Simpson\"]I downloaded the demo but when I'd installed it and tried to run it I got some stupid error about a required file being missing, so I just deleted it.[/quote:fa6102b1b3]
I'm pleased to see Homer Simpson is alive and well on this forum....
Homer: \"Trying is the first step towards failure.\"
Thats a nice start to using the forum, just demean anyone who you first see.
I got a bit lost with this post + the shity bit at the end from some noob what I would like to know who bought this game and what you think to it at the moment I loving it what do you guys feel about it
at the moment i not seen any advertising just hoping its not gathering information about me
[Removed at the request of the author]
DrunkDwarf
14-11-06, 14:04
[quote:5d72a67903=\"ÈL ® ö B ì Ñ\"][quote:5d72a67903=\"Electric Monk\"][quote:5d72a67903=\"Homer 'Barley' Simpson\"]I downloaded the demo but when I'd installed it and tried to run it I got some stupid error about a required file being missing, so I just deleted it.[/quote:5d72a67903]
I'm pleased to see Homer Simpson is alive and well on this forum....
Homer: \"Trying is the first step towards failure.\" [/quote:5d72a67903]
Tossface.[/quote:5d72a67903]
Woah now... that wasn't necessary... it was an attempt at humour, not malicious at all, and you go and insult him... who's the more mature?
[quote:5d72a67903=\"Des\"]I got a bit lost with this post + the **** bit at the end from some noob what I would like to know who bought this game and what you think to it at the moment I loving it what do you guys feel about it
at the moment i not seen any advertising just hoping its not gathering information about me[/quote:5d72a67903]
Nah, its not gathering any more information about you than any website you visit does... nothing to be concerned about, people just like to get into a kerfuffle about their apparent \"privacy\".
Mighty_Jah
14-11-06, 16:24
Just the word Kerfuffle, cracks me up...!
I shall be using Elrobs Phrase of \"Tossface\" in a Pub near me soon...!
Bring Back Crack Col...I say....!... :lol:
Oh yeah ....wasnt this about BF2142?
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6812/macattackyc3.jpg
Ive heard mixed reviews, so far...some good, some bad, mostly the peeps that dont like it are seasoned BF2'ers, proly if they hadnt played BF2 maybe they'd be saying, wow! awsome! or words to that effect, I personally will prolly get it, just to see what all the fuss(Kerfuffle) is all about.!
Mighty... :wink:
well i played bf2 for a few good months :)
now ive switched to battlefield 2142 on the day of release
got my silver warrant officer rank :D
its a wicked game and excellent graphics :P
will be a long time game till a nice battlefield dx10 game comes out in future
the unlocks are superb and squad work is the key to winning this time
no super solo people running round
will just lose their team the game :)
DrunkDwarf
14-11-06, 17:44
[quote]it was an attempt at humour
You mean: it was a failed attempt at humour
[/quote:59d8d6ee99]
Whether or not it failed is irrelevant, the intention is all that matters. :P
[quote]who's the more mature?
Not me :D you obviously didn't see my posts about leaving poo marks down the back of the toilet :lol: :lol:[/quote:59d8d6ee99]
:lol: Ok, fair enough
If anyone fancy’s a game or 2 I been playing on this server*ZhG* 85.236.101.19:17471 find the admins are good which makes for a good server you will know I playing will be at bottom of score board :cry:
lmao des :D
add me xfire plz :)
id = xtreme2007
Gaming name BBzBugBlaster :)
xfire=dedifrag
lol decrypt3r I just did a compare on that link you sent me to funny looks like I got a lot of work to do
Some things I don’t know what the are or how to get them its just i seen them in your profile
Dog Tags
Unique Dog Tags
Time Cloaked
cloaked = a unlock which makes u go invisble :)
dog tags = when u kill someone with a knife :P
heres link :D
http://www.battlefield.ea.com/battlefield/bf2142/PlayerSummary.aspx?Lang=US&SrchName=&Profiles=&PID=81467143
Getting back to the original point at hand, the problem is not the advertising. I don't give a rat's *** about advertising (although if it's going to be appearing in-game, they'd damn well better make it work in context). The problem is the fact that the advertising is based on data collected by spyware - ie it tracks your activities, looks at what you do and sends information on that off to a 3rd party service which then takes a look at the stuff you didn't authorise them to see and provides advertising as they see fit.
Advertising is just a fact of life that we're going to have to get used to. It funds most of the funky sites we all use, so at least in that regard I'm not fussed about it. Having said that, this is kind of like opening Pandora's box - remember how bitter you felt when you bought a game for £35 and it was crap? Think how bad you're going to feel when you get a crap game, and then the distributors have tried to milk the cash cow by chucking in excessive advertising. It's a bit like poking you in the eye and then kicking you in the nuts, really.
DrunkDwarf
15-11-06, 13:36
[quote:5dd7866c1a=\"LJ\"]Getting back to the original point at hand, the problem is not the advertising. I don't give a rat's *** about advertising (although if it's going to be appearing in-game, they'd damn well better make it work in context). The problem is the fact that the advertising is based on data collected by spyware - ie it tracks your activities, looks at what you do and sends information on that off to a 3rd party service which then takes a look at the stuff you didn't authorise them to see and provides advertising as they see fit.[/quote:5dd7866c1a]
Um... no it doesn't... it collects anonymous information, no worse than any web server collects every time you visit a webpage, it is not spyware, the only information it has access to is ingame information, which you do authorize them to see when you install the game.
If you have reliable information (ie. not forum conjecture) to say otherwise... and by reliable, i mean a widely trusted security source who has thoroughly tested the software, then please.. share it... otherwise.. calm down and enjoy the game...
[quote:5dd7866c1a=\"LJ\"]
Advertising is just a fact of life that we're going to have to get used to. It funds most of the funky sites we all use, so at least in that regard I'm not fussed about it. Having said that, this is kind of like opening Pandora's box - remember how bitter you felt when you bought a game for £35 and it was crap? Think how bad you're going to feel when you get a crap game, and then the distributors have tried to milk the cash cow by chucking in excessive advertising. It's a bit like poking you in the eye and then kicking you in the nuts, really.[/quote:5dd7866c1a]
Such an example has not happened yet to my knowledge, as BF2142 by all reports is a great game worthy of the standard retail cost.
cudnt agree more drunkdwarf :)
[quote:c878b68e11=\"DrunkDwarf\"]Um... no it doesn't... it collects anonymous information, no worse than any web server collects every time you visit a webpage, it is not spyware, the only information it has access to is ingame information, which you do authorize them to see when you install the game.
....
Such an example has not happened yet to my knowledge, as BF2142 by all reports is a great game worthy of the standard retail cost.[/quote:c878b68e11]
First point - so, you believe that their system doesn't log the IP address your copy of the game is using to request these adverts? And at no point does the IP address you're using get associated with any online tags you use? There is almost no such thing as anonymous information on the Internet. If you believe that there is, you're very naive - that's insanely valuable information to adware companies. Then we have the ubiquitous security issues - they may say they won't use that information, but less scrupulous individuals may well do. Even the best games companies are vulnerable - remember when id lost their Doom3 source code? I seriously doubt that a games company would protect personal data with as much enthusiasm as they protect their own code.
Also, if all they have to go on is in-game behaviour, how on earth are they going to decide whether you want to see adverts for bedspreads, graphics cards or saucepans? Answer: they're not. Everyone would get the same adverts, which clearly isn't the case. If they did that, and worked out which adverts you looked at the most, they have to keep an eye on your behavioural trends over time, which means that somewhere, information on you (as an individual, traceable and contactable) has to be stored in order to be retrieved and for decisions to be made on its basis. In case you hadn't noticed, that's the definition of spyware, whether you're in a game or not. If you think it's fair for them to collect that sort of information on you while you're playing their game, then surely it's also fine for Microsoft to keep tabs on everything you do while you're using Windows. Right?
Second point - read my post again, and more carefully this time. I wasn't suggesting that BF2142 was the culprit in this case. I said that it's a dangerous road to go down because, as with all genres and ideas in this industry, some asshat always a) tries to figure out another way to make more money out of you (like EA charging money to unlock features in their ridiculously profitable sports franchises which you've always had for free....or Sky, charging us for stuff we always had for free before, like recording programmes), and b) goes to extremes to do so, to the point of wrecking the experience and making us feel like we've just wasted our money.
EDIT: I value my privacy, which is why I won't authorise them to collect this information on installation of the game, by not actually buying the game in the first place...and I know a fair number of people who feel the same way. If they're willing to trade customers for advertising revenue, what does that tell you about their business priorities? I wouldn't support such an enterprise.
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DrunkDwarf
15-11-06, 17:34
[quote:b6cda5db36=\"LJ\"]
First point - so, you believe that their system doesn't log the IP address your copy of the game is using to request these adverts? And at no point does the IP address you're using get associated with any online tags you use?[/quote:b6cda5db36]
Do you believe that every single website in existance doesn't log your IP address and can easily associate you with any other usages of that IP address on their sites? Hows it any different?
[quote:b6cda5db36=\"LJ\"]There is almost no such thing as anonymous information on the Internet. If you believe that there is, you're very naive - that's insanely valuable information to adware companies. Then we have the ubiquitous security issues - they may say they won't use that information, but less scrupulous individuals may well do. Even the best games companies are vulnerable - remember when id lost their Doom3 source code? I seriously doubt that a games company would protect personal data with as much enthusiasm as they protect their own code.[/quote:b6cda5db36]
Anonymous information is any information that does not include nor is associated with your real name and personal details... your IP address, browser, operating system etc are examples of anonymous information that every web server collects.
People trust their personal details, credit cards, with ecommerce sites all the time, and many times have big names have been stung by less scrupulous individuals... big companies have been hacked numerous times, with personal details for thousands of customers stolen. Your scenario happens all around us all the time, online and offline, your privacy is not safe anywhere, this game is no different.
[quote:b6cda5db36=\"LJ\"]Also, if all they have to go on is in-game behaviour, how on earth are they going to decide whether you want to see adverts for bedspreads, graphics cards or saucepans? Answer: they're not. Everyone would get the same adverts, which clearly isn't the case. If they did that, and worked out which adverts you looked at the most, they have to keep an eye on your behavioural trends over time, which means that somewhere, information on you (as an individual, traceable and contactable) has to be stored in order to be retrieved and for decisions to be made on its basis. In case you hadn't noticed, that's the definition of spyware, whether you're in a game or not. If you think it's fair for them to collect that sort of information on you while you're playing their game, then surely it's also fine for Microsoft to keep tabs on everything you do while you're using Windows. Right?[/quote:b6cda5db36]
Give me a source of reliable information that states they do any of what your suggesting here... you're just barking out crazy paranoid accusations with no basis...
Adverts vary depending on the country of origin for your ISP... it does a lookup on your IP address to see which country your ISP is hosted in... a process that is easily done through a multitude of online websites for some time... and a method used by nearly every banner system out there... this has been openly stated and explained by EA themselves. The only other information they collect, is how many times the banner is shown and for what durations etc, so that the companies advertising their goods can see how much advertising their products are actually getting.
If you jump to the beginning of this thread, you'll find links that should lead you to the official statement from EA stating exactly what they are collecting and for what purpose...
DrunkDwarf
15-11-06, 17:40
*additional - seems it cut the post off at this point... maximum post size limit?*
[quote:2f8e9588e9=\"LJ\"]Second point - read my post again, and more carefully this time. I wasn't suggesting that BF2142 was the culprit in this case. I said that it's a dangerous road to go down because, as with all genres and ideas in this industry, some asshat always a) tries to figure out another way to make more money out of you (like EA charging money to unlock features in their ridiculously profitable sports franchises which you've always had for free....or Sky, charging us for stuff we always had for free before, like recording programmes), and b) goes to extremes to do so, to the point of wrecking the experience and making us feel like we've just wasted our money.[/quote:2f8e9588e9]
At the end of the day, if people will pay for it, the companies will do it... im afraid you, and other people objecting to these pay-for extras are in the minority... as there are far more people who will gladly just pay the money for the content... regardless of whether its justified or not... they are doing nothing wrong... if people will buy it, they will sell it...
[quote:2f8e9588e9=\"LJ\"]EDIT: I value my privacy, which is why I won't authorise them to collect this information on installation of the game, by not actually buying the game in the first place...and I know a fair number of people who feel the same way. If they're willing to trade customers for advertising revenue, what does that tell you about their business priorities? I wouldn't support such an enterprise.[/quote:2f8e9588e9]
Unfortunately for you and this \"fair number\", you're still in the vast minority... you can boycott their products and claim they are losing customers etc... but at the end of the day... they aren't losing much at all... there are still far more people buying the games, and will always continue to buy their products... a drop in the ocean which they will not even notice... by their statistics it will be a success... as millions of people will buy the product regardless of the introduction of adverts... and those statistics will cause the ad banners to continue and spread, like it or not.
Fair enough, you've raised some fair points, and I was making some assumptions based on information I'd read elsewhere. However, the simple fact is that regardless of what EA say they're collecting, they'll have the ability to do more. All they have to do is find a way to get you to pay a couple of quid for some additional content online, and suddenly they have a reliable method of identifying you and all of your activities while using their software - which you agreed to by allowing them to collect data on you. Hell, they could do it with a patch, given enough financial incentive by their shareholders and suppliers. History has shown that these decisions aren't made by people who know enough to be qualified to do so - it's usually people who can see plenty of £££/$$$ in it, precisely because (as you say) 90% of people are sheep who blindly trust everything in front of them.
In my book, that's rarely a good thing, and as I said - it's heading in a direction which is unlikely to be good for consumers, because it's designed specifically to increase the bank balance of the shareholders.
Yes, people trust many companies with their private details, and every single one of those is an extra hole in their privacy and (because the company exists solely to make money out of their customers) is exploitable in ways that the consumer never intended, whether by the company or an unscrupulous employee (remember the AOL customer disaster?).
And in regard to your last point, I can't accept that just because I'm in the minority, I should just give in and say nothing. Again, take the example of the Sony rootkits. Very few people knew about it, and even fewer spoke up and said something. Should they have kept quiet? Sony figured they were in the minority, so they did nothing. A few people grew into a few hundred, so they made an impossible-to-find fix for it. Then a few thousand people said something, and they make it a bit easier to find. Then there's a lawsuit, and they finally do what people were asking and get rid of it.
Same for StarForce copy protection, which actually managed to wreck people's hardware. Every time somebody puts software on your machine which has the capability (used or not) of determining something from what you do (eg the amount of time you spend looking at specific adverts), you're giving them implicit encouragement to try a little harder next time. *That* is what I don't want, and it's what I'm arguing against.
And yes, I'm at work and I'm bored.
DrunkDwarf
15-11-06, 18:06
[quote:a14345df45=\"LJ\"]And yes, I'm at work and I'm bored.[/quote:a14345df45]
Indeed... well, im glad our little discussion didn't get too out of hand :D
I understand your stance, i dont like the idea of having to pay for all these extras etc... something many games are doing these days... but its unfortunately inevitable... and entirely optional... people seem to think theres a gun to their head forcing them to pay more money because in their eyes the game is \"incomplete\" without them... which is nonsense... anyway... thanks for the discussion :D
Regards to StarForce... ive no experience of it myself... and ive always heard mixed reports of it... but it looks to be another case of the minority saying its bad... the vast majority not noticing anything at all...
As always... you always hear from the people who've had problems... you rarely ever hear from those who haven't had any problems... the information is biassed toward negativity because the positives have no reason to make themselves known...
Well I think it's a great game :P
[quote:2a17935d18=\"DrunkDwarf\"]
I understand your stance, i dont like the idea of having to pay for all these extras etc... something many games are doing these days... but its unfortunately inevitable... and entirely optional... people seem to think theres a gun to their head forcing them to pay more money because in their eyes the game is \"incomplete\" without them... which is nonsense... anyway... thanks for the discussion :D
Regards to StarForce... ive no experience of it myself... and ive always heard mixed reports of it... but it looks to be another case of the minority saying its bad... the vast majority not noticing anything at all...
As always... you always hear from the people who've had problems... you rarely ever hear from those who haven't had any problems... the information is biassed toward negativity because the positives have no reason to make themselves known...[/quote:2a17935d18]
So long as you understand that I don't agree ;)
I have no problem with paying for additional content. The guys write it, and they need to feed their kids. What I object to is them bundling cheat codes with the game and telling people they have to pay to use them. That's just ridiculous.
There's a reason that the US and the UK are ranking right up their with dictatorships in terms of being surveillance states - the difference is that here, it's not just the government that's doing the surveillance, it's private companies with the apparent blessing of the populace. This isn't just a point of view - if you've read the news lately, you'll know that it's a fact. Now, software which reports to another on what you're doing is doing precisely that. I don't support the idea of a surveillance state in any way, and that's why I argue so much against software that could feasibly be used in that way, and I won't trust a company blindly the way you're suggesting we should.
I certainly don't want to pay any more for the privilege of being spied upon. I pay enough for that already with my taxes.
Incidentally, your comment that the \"vast majority\" didn't notice anything at all is more a comment on the lack of confidence people have in technology than anything else. The instability and general wrecking-ball effects that StarForce had on people's machines was very much like your standard I've-got-too-many-viruses effect, so most people wouldn't be able to differentiate. I quite easily replicated the effects that people were describing by simply installing XP, installing drivers & basic software, then installing a StarForce-infected game and watching the hilarity ensue. The fact is that the problem is often disguised because it looks like (or causes) something else entirely.
But as you say - because the vast majority didn't jump up in arms complaining that they had a rootkit on their system, it's OK that their system gets wrecked and they have to pay somebody £100 to get it fixed as a result of this crappy software.
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