View Full Version : Planned strike action November 30th
More and more unions are voting in favour of strike action regarding public service pensions.
It seems that on November the 30th, NHS workers and civil servants will down tools and strike.
I remember when the teachers did this they didn't get much public sympathy.
I myself am one of these workers who is being asked by my union to walk out. (I work for the NHS)
I am being told by my union that:
The NHS pension pot currently brings in more money each year than it pays out. It has NEVER required a government "top up".
Extra money that the government wants to take from workers will not be put back into the NHS pension. It doesn't need it. The money will be used to try to stem the national debt the country has aquired.
My personal contribution would go up by £1500 a year, or roughly £125 a month. I would expect to get roughly £5k a year less after working 8 years more.
All in all, the cost to me would be (over the next 37 years) roughly £91,500 more than the existing pension. To get £5K a year less.
Now I understand we are all living longer, and I accept that we need to work longer, pay more, or take a lower pension in order to keep things going.
But all 3? Thats where I am struggling with this.
I will just say one or two things more, in expectation of a flame-fest.
I pay nearly £300 into my pension each month. Based on current figures of what my pension would be on the current scheme, I would have to live until 79 until I had taken out more than I put in (straight figures, not including inflation, or the fact that they invest the funds in [hopefully] inflation busting investments.
On the new scheme I would have to live until 91 before I get back what I put in.
I know the average age is going up, but I would be surprised if I live that long.
Point being, YOU the tax payer are NOT bostering my pension. I'm paying for it.
Secondly, I know I would get less in a private pension, but the reason for this is because the private pensions are businesses that want to be profitable and the company wants to make itself very rich. The government bringing our pensions in line with private pensions just proves to me that the government want the profits, rather than pass them on to the worker.
I am seriously undecided what to do. On one hand I think they needed to do something with the pensions, and on the other I feel they have gone too far.
I don't agree with punishing patients by going on strike, but I don't agree with sitting around and have the :censored: taken out of us either.
Tricky decision to make. Do I join my fellow workers, or accept the inevitable and keep soldiering on?
I fully support those that feel they have no alternative but to strike, regardless of the inconvenience it may cause me personally - although obviously I feel for those who will be severely impacted by this, the blame must lie with the government as I do not believe in this case that Unions are being unreasonable.
A lot of people will probably stop when they realise they aren't getting paid.
This isn't aimed at you personally, but every time I hear news about a strike, I have the same response to those striking:
If you're not happy with your job, I'll gladly take it off your hands.
Go get a job then, be a cleaner or something, plenty about.
Well my missus will have to pay out an extra £60 a month for the next 38 years to get 20% less than she would've done.
I really don't see how thats on?
Like Spaceboy, I agree with the principal of being able to strike.
Personally though I think that to some extent it's just the state of the economy. It sucks for ALL of us, there a millions who don't even have a job, nobody (except a few fat-cat bankers maybe) is getting decent pay rises, and the bottom line is we're all going to have to take a big hit.
It's not 'fair' that people are getting less from their pensions than they expected. But life often isn't fair, and economics never is. If everyone goes on strike that just puts our economy back even further and damages the little change we have of recovery.
It matters little really, the economy isn't going to recover anyway, not for years, all this rubbish of 0.5% here or 0.1% there, means nothing.
There are jobs outhere, i go to the job centre once a week and look online and theres plenty, admittedly not very good jobs but people need to stop being selective and just take a job, instead of sponging off the state, thats whats killing the economy.
I've left two jobs this year to go and get 2 more straightaway, 2nd jobs that is.
Now they are just trying to scrape as much cash as they can from people.
Yes its probable my missus will live longer than she would've had she been born 20 or 30 years earlier, but she's looking at working an extra 7 years, then having to pay extra and getting less, 20% less it a massive amount of cash.
So Andyn do you want to pay the extra a month for her???
Not its all well and good writing that life isn't fair blah blah and it effects everyone blah blah but its different when its you.
Oh and Aria says you need to work 15 hours more a week, he wants you pay £10 a week for the coffee fund and he's paying you £10,000 a year less as things are a little tight.
What, you reckon I'm somehow immune to the difficulties of life? You're not the only one in a difficult situation mate, and quite frankly you know nothing about my life - how do you justify such arrogance?
And saying that everyone who can't get a job "just isn't trying enough" is rubbish too. Sure there are some people who are their own worst enemies, but there are plenty of people out there, especially younger people, who are trying pretty damn hard but finding it difficult to even get an interview.
But anyway, we're straying off subject. Can I understand striking? Yes. Do I think it will help improve things? No.
Go get a job then, be a cleaner or something, plenty about.
As I have said many times before, applying for jobs is easy peasey; getting a job, or even a reply, is quite the opposite.
almighty15
17-11-11, 10:25
My girl friend is a teacher and is just waiting for final confirmation from her union if she has to strike or not.
If the NHS staff strike or teachers strike who will look after the ill. Who will pay for me and many thousands of others who will have to take time off to look after children.
While i do agree paying more and getting less is wrong. The people who strike cause many many people suffer and there appears to be no thoughts for anyone else.
No personal offence meant as my sister is a teacher. Just feels like they are only looking out for themselves without a single thought for others who will suffer.
SO what happens then if we let the government keep making cuts and taking more and more off people??
You won't have an NHS as they've left the country to work elsewhere for better money, so you have to relax the passmark to be a doctor as all the clever ones work in canada, so you go to Hospital and the guy amputates your head for diabetes.
My missus is a teacher and doesn't want to strike at all, but as stated she stands to lose a ton of money and yes she has thoughts for others, it will create a problem for millions, but hey, you had kids, look after them.
I really hope this sort of pension problem doesn't hit everyone but if it does then i look forward to your reactions and will anyone care??
Not a bit.
I do understand the points but surely striking is not the way forward.
Why should others be put out though? Are the people striking going to compensate the people who take time off. Millions are struggling in the uk but these strikes will put strain on people who are already overstretched.
I support the fact that people should not be forced to pay more work longer and receive less that clearly is wrong. But then so is forcing people into becoming involved by striking and forcing others to take time off losing money themselves. Is there no alternative?
Actually. I am giving a huge amount of thought to others. Thats why I started this thread, to try to gauge public opinion, and see if you lot can help me decide whether to down tools or not.
Also, my union have only gone on strike twice since the profession (physiotherapy) started over 100 years ago. The last time was 31 years ago. This decision was not taken lightly.
Lastly, I guarantee that the hospitals run ok. The thing about the NHS is the workers graft and really really care. Everyone I work with puts their heart and soul into everyday. We will make sure that enough people are in to not put anyone's life at risk. A few people might be mildly inconvenienced but thats all. And by that I mean patients are told to come in the day before or the day after for their treatment.
Honestly I will do the same amount of work that week as any week. I'll probably stay an hour later each day, take no lunch break and get every patient seen. And I'll take a days pay out of my wage. Just to let parliament know that the way to get out if recession is not by taking money away.
I can see 2 politicians discussing this:
"oh noes we are in recession!"
"what does that mean?"
"it means people don't have as much cash, so they don't spend as much, which means the shops, services etc don't have money coming in so they have to lay off staff, which means there's now even fewer people with money. It's a vicious cycle and it's horrid"
"oh noes, what should we do?"
"well obviously, we should take any spare cash from the people who are spending money, which will worsen the recession and pee off most of the county but the treasury will have enough money to make sure that we still get our prawn sandwiches everyday. "
"Hooray!"
What else can they do the government has stalled negotiations for ages and even refused to tell them what the new deal was as well as they knew what would happen?
I'll pay for your childcare for the day and you can pay the extra £30,000 she has to pay into to her pension to get 20% less than she was.
And she has to pay more a month so thats tens of thousands more people struggling as their pay has been frozen the last 4 years.
almighty15
17-11-11, 11:30
Parents mad at teachers for striking, why? Because you have to look after them?
Teachers have children...deal with it... If the government were not **** holes then there would be no strikes in the first place.
Both Teachers unions have said they'll strike too.
I meant no personal offence mate. I know a fair few people who work for nhs who do care.
It is extremly complicated situation. If the goverment are unwilling to talk then i suppose there is no alternative. Just fruatrating the way it comes accross without a full explanation as to why and how much it will cost ppl in the profession.
almighty15
17-11-11, 11:35
I know that a letter has been sent out to the patents saying that there is a strike and with warning of what dates it may happen on.
Warning parents and giving as much notice as possible is all they can really do.
I'll pay for your childcare for the day and you can pay the extra £30,000 she has to pay into to her pension to get 20% less than she was.
Genius! What a great reply
Can I use this as my new siggy?
Yeah its a massive amount of cash mate, its not a good thing, its like holding people to ransom, but the Government has done much worse.
almighty15
17-11-11, 11:40
Yeah its a massive amount of cash mate, its not a good thing, its like holding people to ransom, but the Government has done much worse.
My misses is losing out on a lot of cash as well, He wages are still deal to say she marks books and plans lessons for 4+ hours a night, even week ends are spent doing school work.
Problem is that the general public dont know just how much work teachers do actual do, I thought they were all over paid brats but when I got with the Mrs I relised just how much work they do actually do.
Some are still overpayed brats who only work the minimum, others work all hours.
This thread shows how much of mess we really are in. You Can't expect politician's to fix it over night...Yes they make my skin crawl. They're doing it to fast and should make cuts elsewhere. Striking wont make a difference , It just wont.
I'm not saying we should just accept it, But looking back at previous strikes and protest of the last few years, Why assume they will listen?
Asside from Ousting the current government we have little choice.
almighty15
17-11-11, 11:46
Some are still overpayed brats who only work the minimum, others work all hours.
Mine does years 5-6 which is a lot of work as she has prep them and get them through the SATS, Hence the Huge amount of marking and planning there she has to do.
Both Teachers unions have said they'll strike too.
There's more than two teachers unions - all bar one have voted to strike. AFAIK we're still waiting to hear from the last union (which is the union my gf is in, so is of particular interest to me as opposed to the others)
almighty15
17-11-11, 12:26
There's more than two teachers unions - all bar one have voted to strike. AFAIK we're still waiting to hear from the last union (which is the union my gf is in, so is of particular interest to me as opposed to the others)
Same as my GF, So they must be in the same union.
The discussion about how much my gf should pay into her pension is going on at home. It is ultimately a gamble on how long you live, working out she needs to be 89+ before getting it back. We are looking at not bothering as the money could go on a mortgage.
Anyway personal situation to one side as 2 years payed in isn't a huge amount relative to others.
The NHS have a huge issue in that they have opened the schemes to any and all. You can work for 35 years as a cleaner for the NHS then train as a nurse and work another 5 and take home like you payed in 40 years on nurses pay. It is one of the huge issues with final year pay schemes that span across many jobs.
The other is the investing, as people have said they hope the pension pot will be invested in inflation busting stuff but investing as a hole looks poor. The banks aren't lending, money isn't being exchanged enough, investing is simply not going to happen with any risks or large returns like in years past.
It is true that people will leave to follow money but they will simply move to private practices in the uk if they can. Probably one of the other issues is practices that are private but do a quota of NHS making them entitled to NHS perks while taking home much more pay.
Are so many issues with the NHS and healthcare in general but as always the ones that are easy money are top of the list. Had a pension reform come after a brutal but needed shake up of who and how ect then it wouldn't be as bad.
But yeah my gf is on about £17k as a doctors surgery receptionist/nurse(you know answer phones 1min take blood the next), she is qualified as a nurse fully so if she does pay in then swap jobs later down the line her pay goes to £22k+ before the extra for being in london. Kinda makes a mockery of final year as I said above.
I cant afford a pension! I have a very dangerous job too. Being a test pilot for Airfix is nerve wracking.
almighty15
17-11-11, 13:10
The discussion about how much my gf should pay into her pension is going on at home. It is ultimately a gamble on how long you live, working out she needs to be 89+ before getting it back. We are looking at not bothering as the money could go on a mortgage.
Exact problem me and my GF are having atm, deciding if its worth it or not.
She's went up a pay level in Sept and now earns just over 27k a year.
Think next Sept it goes to over 30k a year.
heavywater
17-11-11, 13:51
What else can they do the government has stalled negotiations for ages and even refused to tell them what the new deal was as well as they knew what would happen?
She should quit and get a different job.
Plenty about.
Normally £1,500 ish increments, my missus is on £31,200, then they have to apply to go through threshold, which includes a masters degree or equiv to carry on earning.
She should quit and get a different job.
Plenty about.
I've told her but she likes teaching.
almighty15
17-11-11, 14:06
She should quit and get a different job.
Plenty about.
So because the government are being ****s she has to change the job that she trained for years for and loves doing?
And plenty job out there? Show ne plenty of jobs that offer 27k+ per year and maybe I'll try to talk my GF into stop being a teacher.
Such an arogant comment to make :rolleyes:
So because the government are being ****s she has to change the job that she trained for years for and loves doing?
And plenty job out there? Show ne plenty of jobs that offer 27k+ per year and maybe I'll try to talk my GF into stop being a teacher.
Such an arogant comment to make :rolleyes:
Hes only repeating what el wayneo said on page one mate
heavywater
17-11-11, 14:15
So because the government are being ****s she has to change the job that she trained for years for and loves doing?
And plenty job out there? Show ne plenty of jobs that offer 27k+ per year and maybe I'll try to talk my GF into stop being a teacher.
Oh, hello up there.
Sometimes you can't do what you want to do and get paid the amount you demand for it. For details, please see El Wayneos post on the previous page.
If someone doesn't want their 35k job in the NHS, I'm more than happy to relieve them off it. I promise not to whine either.
I can see where heavywater is coming from above. Newsflash, if you are a couple and one of you is earning close to 30K, you are not living on the breadline.
First world problems?
Never said i was on the breadline, we have a combined income of over £55,000 atm but that doesn't make it right for the government to steal of us, we've both worked extremely hard to get where we are, no one gave me anything.
Do people think you just magically get decent jobs or something? its called hard work.
And do you think money just magically comes from nowhere? Fact is the country is in debt, we're all going to have to take a big hit, man up and deal with it.
Man up lol.
You don't know me blah blah, how dare you say things like this to me blah blah.
Of course i know where money comes from, my boss!
Afew disturbing scene's on this video but it shows fairly simply why the government is trying its hardest to screw you out of any money your due after your production years have ended .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cd-SLRyuRq0&feature=relmfu
its a good watch though .
almighty15
17-11-11, 14:44
And do you think money just magically comes from nowhere? Fact is the country is in debt, we're all going to have to take a big hit, man up and deal with it.
There's a difference between taking a hit and just been plain ripped off....
But the fact that me and my gf have paid thousands into a pension that we now might even get to have is a **** take.
Funny thing is it's only the people on low income that are moaning at the the people that earn a decent wage.
I work damn hard for my money...
Afew disturbing scene's on this video but it shows fairly simply why the government is trying its hardest to screw you out of any money your due after your production years have ended .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cd-SLRyuRq0&feature=relmfu
its a good watch though .
We need a police state really, control all these rampant gangs of kids, the squatters and lowlifes who take and take and don't give back.
We need a police state really, control all these rampant gangs of kids, the squatters and lowlifes who take and take and don't give back.
Hehe that was a bit too obvious really, I'd give it 5 out of a possible 10 on the Simon1987 scale ;P.
Oh well looks like some agree and disagree again.
In closing i think its wrong that the government can just say well all this money has to be paid back and you guys earn enough anyway so we'll take it off you, nevermind that you want to buy shiny things or have a bigger house or a better car, or move to a better neighbourhood so your kids can grow up safe, or save some money to see the world, its for the good of the country, oh wait we'll just pour this money into something else and lose it all, then we'll try and take more from elsewhere.
Maybe take £20 a month off of job seekers?
Increase rent in council houses by £10 a month.
Give people the jobs that are available when they go in the job centre, 35 hours a week you say, heres one cleaning Lidl take it or no job seekers.
Make MP's only claim for food, fuel and housing.
Asylum seeker but no job or no skills, no thanks and if you are lucky enough to stay then you can't claim anything for 5 years unless you work.
They maynot be perfect solutions but it'd help, better than all these, what about him/her, you can't do this but you offer nothing up yourselves.
Anyway i'm off to man up, nevermind i work two jobs and had to take a whopper of a paycut (£7,000 p.a) to keep one in these tough times and oh yeah, i might be losing my job so i'm volunteering in a school and doing my Level 3 NVQ so i can get into teaching without a degree and try to secure a job.
Working hard and expecting to be rewarded is quite understandable, I feel that way myself. But there's no getting around the fact that the country has huge debts, and we're all going to have to take a hit to pay it back.
To some extent there's been a global rebalancing of wealth coming for a long time; let's face it the western world pretty much had everything it's own way for a century, but I suspect things are starting to equalise. We owe the money, we have to pay it back, and the measures you mention (jobseekers, council house rent) even if we implemented them wouldn't amount to but a drop in the ocean. It's going to take probably multiple decades, and quite simply we're going to have it harder than our parents did, and most of us aren't going to be able to retire as comfortably or as early.
Raging at the government just doesn't cut it. Because it's not really just the fault of the current government, or even purely the last government, the causes go back decades.
Anyway, we're moving radically away from the striking question again :P.
Its kind of linked the striking as its the harsh measures imposed by this government thats promted it.
But your right, what happens when they say right £22,000 is plenty we want 35% tax on that please, lots more going to upset.
Or oh yeah the PC industry earns well, you guys can all pay an extra 10% tax.
Its about taking a stand, normally i'm opposed as i put before as it is ransom really, like the fire strike, but without these strike actions the government will keep on going.
I'd rather they kept VAT at 20% forever than hammer pensions.
I work for my local district council and I wont be striking on the 30th. That being said if my bosses are off I'll sit at my desk drinking tea and browsing these forums that day :thumb:
I'd rather they kept VAT at 20% forever than hammer pensions.
Well I'd rather that too. You have no IDEA how much hassle it is to change all the VAT settings in all the code.. :P
And yeah I do completely understand why people who are losing money are going to get angry. That's completely natural and reasonable.
But the bill for pensions have been rising and rising for decades, and there's a bit of a major problem in that there's a big 'age spike' in the country's demographics as the baby-boomer generation all retire, and we're all living longer and longer on average year by year. At some point it just becomes completely unsustainable, because it gets to the point where every generation is paying for the last generation to spend 40 years in retirement.
And I'm not saying the government are doing everything right, I haven't a clue what the 'right' or 'fair' way to make cuts is. But I do know that they have to make cuts (if you don't have money, you simply can't spend it..) and however they do it there are going to be a lot of angry people, and it's likely that the country's large 'middle class' (speaking financially here) are going to take a lot of the damage because the very rich are the people making the laws and the very poor only have a limited amount to give (or have taken from them) whether they 'deserve it' or not.
I can see where heavywater is coming from above. Newsflash, if you are a couple and one of you is earning close to 30K, you are not living on the breadline.
First world problems?
Many people are looking at "nhs pensions" and reading "doctors pensions", truth of the matter is it goes for EVERYONE in the nhs. A huge percentage are going to be carers, cleaners and others in the "support staff" part of the nhs who are on the more breadline end of stuff. It is much like any loan or investment or anything tho that if you have been paying in x, y and z and expecing a, b and c back then moving the goalposts is wrong. If the banks turned around inline with the goverment and said "ok anyone with a mortgage we have just decided to add 5% onto what your paying back as this total will fix the countries debt" then we would have marching in the streets and riots and whatever.
I get the "we are all having to tighten the purse strings" argument.
I could argue that we all have had our wages frozen and with inflation that means I am over 10% worse off than 2 years ago. But plenty are worse off than that and i accept that as a needed action.
BUT, our pensions WE have paid into. It's our money. Anyone who thinks otherwise, I have these figures taken from the treasury:
"How much did NHS workers pay into the scheme last year?
Treasury figures for 2009/10 show that pension expenditure in the NHS was £6.3bn and ‘receipts’ were £8.4bn giving a net cash balance of £2.1bn."
In other words, the NHS pension pot provided the treasury with £2.1bn of unspent funds.
Our "savings" are being taken away and given to the treasury, and have been for years.
I wonder how people would feel if the politicians stated that they demanded everyone put some of their pay packet in a savings account, which the government could then access each year and remove 25% of it.
That's what is happening, and they are telling you all that YOU, the tax payer, is paying for it.
It's all lies.
Yeah we all live longer but surely i should be able to pay more into get the same?
But my missus has to work longer, pay more in for less, ridicolous.
Like Cruciate says, its as bad as the Government saying, ohh look you have £7000 you've saved, well beings as your not spending it we'll have £2,000.
Like Cruciate says, its as bad as the Government saying, ohh look you have £7000 you've saved, well beings as your not spending it we'll have £2,000.
.....oh and make sure you put more in next year so we can take more, oh and, one last thing, you can't withdraw any of it for 8 years longer than you originally agreed to. Mmmmm K?
This does equate to a wider problem, too many people not enough space or resources.
We (being the UK and this goes for most of the western world) have thrived off our technology, manufacturing, inventions etc etc. What happening is the rest of the world is quickly catching up. Without this advantage we are suddenly becomming a very small island with a very large amount of mouths to feed. As unlikely as this is, if every country we traded with decided to suddenly refuse us business, although I believe we could possibly sustain our own power generation, our oil and gas would run out almost immediately, not to mention most of the population would starve as there is no way we can produce enough food to sustain ourselfs.
Also for years, countries have traded money with each other, money which essentially doesnt even really exist, that is to say, if the **** really hit the fan, little numbers on a computer screen are not going to help you much.
I am of course talking in worse case scenario here, and of course in the real world (and tbh I hope it never does) is not like this, but I do believe it is these underlying problems which we are feeling the burden of these days. I know in the UK we look at 3rd world and developing countries and most of us will be thinking, and even if you dont liek to admit it - "I am glad I dont have to live like them". The problem is, we are heading towards an era where we are not doing anything (as a nation) to put us above those people anymore.
We certainly have, as a nation had it easy recently, as in the last century, and more recently due to trading money (those numbers on a computer), but what hasnt helped is society got greedy and the crash of the financial markets over the last 3 or 4 years has highlighted this.
OK so right back to the original post about the strikes, the reason I am not personally striking is this:
I am healthy - I have access to healthcare if I needed it
I have a roof over my head
I have enough to eat
I live reasonably comfortably - I have a hot shower, I dont have to live with desease or dirty water
My family is relatively safe
That is not to say I am rich, have an expensive car, a massive house, can afford to go out regularly for a meal etc, I cant buy new clothes all the time etc etc etc, but honestly, I am not only happy but damn lucky I have what I have, and I never forget that. Yes it sucks people are losing some money, but alot of people have it alot worse then you.
This does equate to a wider problem, too many people not enough space or resources.
We (being the UK and this goes for most of the western world) have thrived off our technology, manufacturing, inventions etc etc. What happening is the rest of the world is quickly catching up. Without this advantage we are suddenly becomming a very small island with a very large amount of mouths to feed. As unlikely as this is, if every country we traded with decided to suddenly refuse us business, although I believe we could possibly sustain our own power generation, our oil and gas would run out almost immediately, not to mention most of the population would starve as there is no way we can produce enough food to sustain ourselfs.
Also for years, countries have traded money with each other, money which essentially doesnt even really exist, that is to say, if the **** really hit the fan, little numbers on a computer screen are not going to help you much.
I am of course talking in worse case scenario here, and of course in the real world (and tbh I hope it never does) is not like this, but I do believe it is these underlying problems which we are feeling the burden of these days. I know in the UK we look at 3rd world and developing countries and most of us will be thinking, and even if you dont liek to admit it - "I am glad I dont have to live like them". The problem is, we are heading towards an era where we are not doing anything (as a nation) to put us above those people anymore.
We certainly have, as a nation had it easy recently, as in the last century, and more recently due to trading money (those numbers on a computer), but what hasnt helped is society got greedy and the crash of the financial markets over the last 3 or 4 years has highlighted this.
OK so right back to the original post about the strikes, the reason I am not personally striking is this:
I am healthy - I have access to healthcare if I needed it
I have a roof over my head
I have enough to eat
I live reasonably comfortably - I have a hot shower, I dont have to live with desease or dirty water
My family is relatively safe
That is not to say I am rich, have an expensive car, a massive house, can afford to go out regularly for a meal etc, I cant buy new clothes all the time etc etc etc, but honestly, I am not only happy but damn lucky I have what I have, and I never forget that. Yes it sucks people are losing some money, but alot of people have it alot worse then you.
That's alright your grandparents and parents will just have to tighten the belt and not have the heating on, I mean 70+ not like it could kill them.
Remember your stealing from a pensioner when you steal from the future.
My wife is striking on the 30th, but she doesn't have much choice as so many are the school will likely close.
Oh well looks like some agree and disagree again.
In closing i think its wrong that the government can just say well all this money has to be paid back and you guys earn enough anyway so we'll take it off you, nevermind that you want to buy shiny things or have a bigger house or a better car, or move to a better neighbourhood so your kids can grow up safe, or save some money to see the world, its for the good of the country, oh wait we'll just pour this money into something else and lose it all, then we'll try and take more from elsewhere.
Maybe take £20 a month off of job seekers?
Increase rent in council houses by £10 a month.
Give people the jobs that are available when they go in the job centre, 35 hours a week you say, heres one cleaning Lidl take it or no job seekers.
Make MP's only claim for food, fuel and housing.
Asylum seeker but no job or no skills, no thanks and if you are lucky enough to stay then you can't claim anything for 5 years unless you work.
They maynot be perfect solutions but it'd help, better than all these, what about him/her, you can't do this but you offer nothing up yourselves.
Great just what we need more money taken from the people who need it the most?
This reminds me of the 300 quote
Give them nothing! But take from them everything!
And you cant just force people into jobs they don't want to work. I tried working in a kitchen, lets just say it was unbearable after 7 hours no break no water. You start forcing people into positions and companies are going to exploit them and when they've had enough what then? They should be forced out of their benefits?
Sniperdude
22-11-11, 08:04
Working hard and expecting to be rewarded is quite understandable, I feel that way myself. But there's no getting around the fact that the country has huge debts, and we're all going to have to take a hit to pay it back.
Tell that to David Cameron who spent £700,000 public money kitting out NO 10 and tried to hide it, and to the 1000's of disabled who can no longer get sickness benefit because the government have made it impossible
MS sufferes fit for work
Blind people fit for work
cancer patents fit for work
then they win the appeal only to be sent on another medical a few months later and lose it all over again and have to fight all over again
I could go on but I wont
And the appeals cost ten times what you would have got.......
or
Let's have an enquiry costing £7m into why the last enquiry cosy £4m........
Great just what we need more money taken from the people who need it the most?
This reminds me of the 300 quote
And you cant just force people into jobs they don't want to work. I tried working in a kitchen, lets just say it was unbearable after 7 hours no break no water. You start forcing people into positions and companies are going to exploit them and when they've had enough what then? They should be forced out of their benefits?
So much about this post made me rage.
I was fortunate enough 2 years ago to have a holiday to Africa. What an eye opener that was. It broke my heart to see literally thousands of people queuing up for odd jobs. They would run a mile, dragging a trailer full of rubble and steel, in the heat of the day, for less than 50p. And smile like they'd won the lottery.
Sorry, but I don't buy the "it was horrific" argument.
The "problem" is that lifetime non workers have a comfortable life on benefits. Any work sucks compared to that. But people who have worked all their lives and have rent/mortgage to pay along with utility bills etc can't hope to survive. And most go and get any job they can, regardless of how horrid it is.
In terms of the disabled being forced to work...that is pathetic from the government.
That's a case of "too much money is being spent on disability living allowance, we have to make it harder to get" rather than "we have to make it harder to fake"
Example- someone with MS might be able to get up stairs. It takes them an hour, going on their bottom, one step at a time. But they manage it.
Someone else with a bruised toe just refuses to do it, says they can't and when pushed walk up one step then fall over crying.
The second one is likely to get something. The MS sufferer isn't.
It's all decided, on paper, without any common sense allowed.
Sniperdude
22-11-11, 12:06
In terms of the disabled being forced to work...that is pathetic from the government.
That's a case of "too much money is being spent on disability living allowance, we have to make it harder to get" rather than "we have to make it harder to fake"
Example- someone with MS might be able to get up stairs. It takes them an hour, going on their bottom, one step at a time. But they manage it.
Someone else with a bruised toe just refuses to do it, says they can't and when pushed walk up one step then fall over crying.
The second one is likely to get something. The MS sufferer isn't.
It's all decided, on paper, without any common sense allowed.
that's what's so stupid about it
these people are deemed fit for work under the new ESA benefit formally known as incapacity BUT the DLA is unaffected if they also claim that?
infact DLA is the hardest benefit to claim its estimated only 0.7% get it via fraudulent means and yet the government have plans to cut claimants by 25% also
I understand why the government want to cut the benefit bill but they are going about it the wrong way and the really sick people are in the crossfire
and suffering.
Supermoose
22-11-11, 12:40
Striking bugs me you don't get shop workers striking most work for minimum wage long hours and have no real pension benifits and a lack of long term job security.
Sniperdude
22-11-11, 12:44
because they would be sacked on the spot but if they could don't think they wouldnt
So much about this post made me rage.
I was fortunate enough 2 years ago to have a holiday to Africa. What an eye opener that was. It broke my heart to see literally thousands of people queuing up for odd jobs. They would run a mile, dragging a trailer full of rubble and steel, in the heat of the day, for less than 50p. And smile like they'd won the lottery.
Sorry, but I don't buy the "it was horrific" argument.
The "problem" is that lifetime non workers have a comfortable life on benefits. Any work sucks compared to that. But people who have worked all their lives and have rent/mortgage to pay along with utility bills etc can't hope to survive. And most go and get any job they can, regardless of how horrid it is.
In terms of the disabled being forced to work...that is pathetic from the government.
That's a case of "too much money is being spent on disability living allowance, we have to make it harder to get" rather than "we have to make it harder to fake"
Example- someone with MS might be able to get up stairs. It takes them an hour, going on their bottom, one step at a time. But they manage it.
Someone else with a bruised toe just refuses to do it, says they can't and when pushed walk up one step then fall over crying.
The second one is likely to get something. The MS sufferer isn't.
It's all decided, on paper, without any common sense allowed.
Oh so did you enjoy your holiday? I'm sure you brought over loads of books and writing materials to help young Africans get an education? I'm sure you also helped bring the most needy to the UK and get them a decent life and even house them until they can afford to go alone?
So it's OK for employers who make millions of profit each year to exploit their staff?
I'm also sure you would give up your work breaks and time for food/water.
When you do all the above then you can criticise me.
Interesting point.. My girlfriends dad runs a business in Africa, as I'm sure you know. They had a vacancy for a cleaners position. On the day of the interviews, they had a queue of over 350people which started forming at 3am.
The thing that gets me is that the govt spent literally billions of pounds of our money bailing out Northern Rock with the promise that it would be good for the economy and we'd all see some sort of return. And now, they've just gone and sold it to beardy Branson for about 80p, and are somehow trying to tell us that it was a good thing to do?!!
Oh so did you enjoy your holiday?
Yeah it was amazing. Thanks.
I'm sure you brought over loads of books and writing materials to help young Africans get an education?
Yep, did that. I also managed to get Burnley football club to gift around 50 kids football shirts, then I went and bought 10 footballs and pumps, and visited schools giving them PE equipment:
1295
Oh yeah, and I went to a local supermarket, and got £100 worth of rice, flour etc to hand out to the families. Not much but the families concerned seemed happy. Saddest thing was we bought a tub of broken biscuits and they went mad for them. I couldn't explain why, until the guide said it was because they were so hungry it was food they could eat now. The other food needed preparing. It broke my heart.
I'm sure you also helped bring the most needy to the UK and get them a decent life and even house them until they can afford to go alone?
No. thats just silly.
So it's OK for employers who make millions of profit each year to exploit their staff?
Ummm, they have to pay a minimum wage. £6.08 an hour I think? I think you will find 12 hours in a sweatshop for 50p somewhat more exploitive.
I'm also sure you would give up your work breaks and time for food/water.
Not getting this one. If I had no food or water, and giving up my breaks allowed me to get some, then yes i would. Otherwise I would die.
When you do all the above then you can criticise me.
Nah. can't be bothered.
Yeah it was amazing. Thanks.
Yep, did that. I also managed to get Burnley football club to gift around 50 kids football shirts, then I went and bought 10 footballs and pumps, and visited schools giving them PE equipment:
1295
Oh yeah, and I went to a local supermarket, and got £100 worth of rice, flour etc to hand out to the families. Not much but the families concerned seemed happy. Saddest thing was we bought a tub of broken biscuits and they went mad for them. I couldn't explain why, until the guide said it was because they were so hungry it was food they could eat now. The other food needed preparing. It broke my heart.
No. thats just silly.
Ummm, they have to pay a minimum wage. £6.08 an hour I think? I think you will find 12 hours in a sweatshop for 50p somewhat more exploitive.
Not getting this one. If I had no food or water, and giving up my breaks allowed me to get some, then yes i would. Otherwise I would die.
Nah. can't be bothered.
and no I feel like a **** lol. Sorry from your post you made it sound like you were one of those "want to help but don't people".
kinda defeats the point, people complain about losing money so they strike and do not get paid for those days?
Toonshorty
22-11-11, 21:07
kinda defeats the point, people complain about losing money so they strike and do not get paid for those days?
Lesser of two evils really.
kinda defeats the point, people complain about losing money so they strike and do not get paid for those days?
I stand to lose for one days action £160.
I stand to pay extra into a pension that will never pay me back what I put in..... £150. Extra. A month. For another 32 years.
Simple maths. £160 < £57,800.
I'm a local government employee too - don't have a pension personally, but I will be taking a days pay hit for standing up for my colleagues. Worth it I reckon, as it won't be long before they start raping my kids trust fund to help fund their silly grand schemes.
This is what we get living in a capatalist society - governed by filthy banks and large corporations that our government keep giving to whilst raping us the 'commoner' dry.
Maybe if our leaders decided to spend money looking after us instead of causing bloody wars abroad, killing innocents just to help procure resources (i.e. Oil) and help sell arms, then maybe we would be much better off. Don't give me non of that - in the name of democracy crap either - it's as simple as, that we are VERY selective in who we choose to attack (look at egypt right now).
We should look after our own before we go messing with other countries.........Funny how we can cut back on everything but not our 'interests'/warmongering abroad.....
Sounds to me like your a doll dosser and you're running scared about having to work for money instead of sitting on your ****.
I work for nothing ATM which got me a Christmas job I even worked overtime when one of the colleagues recently passed away.
I'm also working on setting up my own start up next year and have spent the rest of my free time getting quotes and lectures to ensure the success of my start up.
I stand to lose for one days action £160.
I stand to pay extra into a pension that will never pay me back what I put in..... £150. Extra. A month. For another 32 years.
Simple maths. £160 < £57,800.
Hmm I see the point here. Not very politically minded, nor read up on this kind of stuff, so quite honestly I don't give a ****. I don't pay a pension yet, not striking and couldn't anyway as I'm not in a Union.
BUT, you may all continue discussing :)
So even the serious discussion part of the forum is open to trolling now???
Indeed, enough with the short, pointless posts, if you don't have anything meaningful to add, stick to other sections of the forum.
in the summer my old landlord put up our rent we couldn't affrd to pay it with just my partner working and me looking after our son. He is seven i worked a few jobs but finding one that was flexible around him being at school was nearly impossible. However my partners boss heard we were in trouble so offered me the job of cleaner at there company, I work 20 hours a week around ethan being at school, It's not a great job i clean toilets for a living yet i am smarter than 90% of the people that work there, But it is a job it pays our bills keeps me in computer parts and gives me a sense of well being. WE were alwasy in a position were we earnt too much to get benefits help but not enough to live on.
I owe my boss a lot he did us a huge favour and luckily he is extremely flexible so next week if they do strike i'll just take my son to work and he can play on his DS in the canteen while i work.
In regards to the strikes it causes a lot of disruption for us and no i dont hink it helps. Teachers grumble but i have friends who the minute the recession struck were told 10% pay cuts or there would be redundancies, They took it on the chin. At our work no one has had a pay rise for 3 years now and were not high earning the average full time wage (excluding management) is about 14,000. Factor in the fact we live on the south coast so rental costs for a 1 bed flat will set you back 5k minimum and council tax 1100 on top. Everyone is feeling the pinch i see on the news average uk wage of 26k or whatever it is. I dont know anyone that earns that.
Whether we like what the goverment is doing one thing is right if we continue to outspend we cannot survive. Something needs to be done and striking and causing disruption is probably not the answer.
And before i get slated i will add that before you took the first strike i supported teachers but you lost me at that point as i lost a days work and a days wage and i get no pension other than a state one so i cant afford to.
The costs of the war in Libya must be seen in the context of the squandering of vast amounts of public wealth by successive British governments in the imperialist wars in Afghanistan and Iraq over the last decade. According to official figures reported last year, these wars had cost more than £20 billion. Between April 2001 and March 2010, at least £9.24 billion was spent on the imperialist war in Iraq and £11.1 billion in Afghanistan. These figures are costs in addition to the £35 billion annual defence budget.
The final costs for these wars are expected to be far higher, as the figures do not include troops' salaries, care for the wounded, and future mental health care.
It is estimated that close to £5 billion a year will be spent by the coalition government to fund its continuing military operations in Afghanistan.
Meanwhile, workers in Britain and across Europe are being ordered to submit to the greatest campaign of austerity measures in recent history. The ruling class has written itself a blank cheque to fund neo-colonial conquests around the world, but insists that essential social services be cut in the name of “deficit reduction.”
Think this quote speaks for itself - we can afford BILLIONS of pounds (not to mention the irreplacable lives lost on all sides) for our warmongering but not anything to keep our own shores healthy.....
Ahhhh but think of the Oil, will save trillions in the future by securing it now.
Plus all of the companies who employ workers who make stuffs for war.
War generates lots and lots of monies, weapons contracts, training, far outweighs the cost of one, except in actual lives that is.
That quote is clearly written by someone who is massively bias, how can you write about the financial cost of a war, yet no mention any of the money it generates.
That quote is clearly written by someone who is massively bias, how can you write about the financial cost of a war, yet no mention any of the money it generates.
I think the quote raises some valid points, but it is HUGELY bias as you say. As soon as I read this bit:
was spent on the imperialist war
it just made me think 'here we go again, yet more propoganda written purely from one side only".
And thats the problem. Everyone only sees it from their own tiny point of view, and doesnt see outside of the bubble that directly affects them. Unfortunately, this is also how the politicians operate as well. They only see the figures that are on paper directly infront of them, without any grasp on how it affects people in the real world of people who don't earn a couple of hundred thousand per year, and able to claim tens of thousands in expenses on top of that.
Agreed Aaron - it was just a quick quote I grabbed from teh www to demonstrate the figures involved with the monies we waste on war, albiet reading it again it does sound heavily biased! (damn socialist web sites!!)
Putting that aside though - the point still stands £20 billion on iraq and Afghanistan (and counting), and nearly £2 billion on Libya. Thats money we could be using now to help stabalise our economy instead.
Indeed, enough with the short, pointless posts, if you don't have anything meaningful to add, stick to other sections of the forum.
So anything short is automatically pointless and meaningless? Slightly unfair wouldn't you agree?
So anything short is automatically pointless and meaningless? Slightly unfair wouldn't you agree?
You didn't see the posts that got deleted. Totally fair imo, especially in the Serious Discussion area. Infact, some of them were infraction worthy, but Andy decided to put a reminder in the thread, rather than go down the more serious route.
Sniperdude
24-11-11, 00:31
You didn't see the posts that got deleted. Totally fair imo, especially in the Serious Discussion area. Infact, some of them were infraction worthy, but Andy decided to put a reminder in the thread, rather than go down the more serious route.
my posts was deleted today and to be honest if i was a mod i would have deleted exactly the same way... very fair. it did get out of hand.
heavywater
24-11-11, 01:53
So anything short is automatically pointless and meaningless? Slightly unfair wouldn't you agree?
Not anything short is automatically pointless, just so happens that the deleted posts were short and were pointless, mine included. If I'd have noticed it was in SD I wouldn't have posted and it was quite right that they were deleted.
Well as said, I didn't see the posts, so thought the comment was referring to my post. Apologies.
Well as said, I didn't see the posts, so thought the comment was referring to my post. Apologies.
Nooooooo. Compared to the removed posts, yours was War and Peace.
The removed posts were just 3 or 4 word replies along the lines of "you're an idiot", "no, you are", "no you are cos I said it first", "no, saying it first MAKES you an idiot" etc etc etc.
Pointless, added nothing to the thread, but there was a very funny post about one member being very proud of his handbag. I was sad to see that post go :(
Sniperdude
24-11-11, 19:06
funny how we have gone off topic talking about how it went off topic
funny how we have gone off topic talking about how it went off topic
Lol, you're right.
Bringing it back on topic for a second. (I promise to go off topic again soon!)
I was thinking earlier this week about all my figures I have been waving around in this thread. You know, saying that I have to work til Ninety something to get the money back I would''ve put in etc etc. And I found myself thinking "the answer is simple, don't have a pension. Stick the same amount of money I am currently putting in my NHS pension into a bank account and watch it build up. That would only be a problem if I DO live to 90-odd and run out of money".
And the thing is, with the current changes, it makes sense to leave. And if everyone decides the same as me then we have a problem. Remember this bit:
Treasury figures for 2009/10 show that pension expenditure in the NHS was £6.3bn and receipts were £8.4bn giving a net cash balance of £2.1bn.
Now if just HALF the people left the NHS pension, the treasury would be 4.2 billion pounds worse off. And the economy really can't afford that.
There would be virtually no money coming in, but all the retired people still want their pensions. So then it really would be YOU the taxpayer coughing up.
Trust me, you do NOT want the pension deal to be SO poor that people leave it.
Maybe, we should be threatening to leave the pension scheme, not strike, because I swear people leaving the pension would put the treasury in a very poor state.
My school is closed down for the day on Wednesday because of the strikes.
Toonshorty
27-11-11, 18:51
My school is closed down for the day on Wednesday because of the strikes.
So is mine, which is good since I've got work to catch up on :rolleyes:
should be the bigest strike in 85 years or something, 2.5 million people will strike :)
I don't really get the striking. But then again I don't work in that sector (but also don't get any form of pension). On the surface it seems a fruitless task. In the end all the strike will do is put even more of the general public (your friends, family etc) at a disadvantage. Even less of out population will be getting educated, which can't be great.
In the end the way I see it is you have a job, regardless of what gets taken from wages etc. if what you end up with is an alright pay then stop complaining. As with all jobs there are no doubt a bunch of semi incapable people in a lot of these positions that would have next to no chance getting another job, yet they still think they have the right to complain about it? As I said. For some people I'm sure the reason behind the strike is valid. I don't believe the action itself is though. Oh and if it were up to me I would wipe all unions off the face of this country. They are useless and serve no purpose other than as a complaints post for workers. I should know as I have to deal with the repercussions of them in my work. Apparently lorry drivers don't like the vehicles they drive being tracked. Even though they belong to the respective companies...
Its called an invasion of privacy mate. How would you like someone being sat next to you monitoring your work all day everyday? :p
Anyways - i'm sure one day of education loss isn't going to make a difference, most of the chavs truant longer per month let alone once every 85 years;)
btw wonder whatever happened to this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13962454
MP's are public sector workers too and should be subject to the same as us - Funny how it doesn't apply to them anymore does it?
Its called an invasion of privacy mate. How would you like someone being sat next to you monitoring your work all day everyday? :p
Invasion of privacy is someone in my home watching me. And as for monitoring my work - I have a tracking device in my vehicle and have nothing to hide, I work hard and my company can see that I'm doing so. It actually makes my life easier as I can seperate my work miles from my personal miles a lot easier for doing expenses.
I understand what you're saying WRT education. I'm sure there are a lot of people who are glad to have a day off, however, what about people who have exams coming up before christmas? And those that actually want to achieve something in life. Why should they be punished for something that's so far out of their control?
At least the roads should be nice and clear on Weds :thumb: :D
almighty15
28-11-11, 10:12
My girl friend is striking on Wednesday, Letter went out last week so there's been a weeks notice.
And I don't know why people always target teachers, They're not the only ones striking but every one rages on at teachers :rolleyes:
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I don't really get the striking. But then again I don't work in that sector (but also don't get any form of pension). On the surface it seems a fruitless task. In the end all the strike will do is put even more of the general public (your friends, family etc) at a disadvantage. Even less of out population will be getting educated, which can't be great.
In the end the way I see it is you have a job, regardless of what gets taken from wages etc. if what you end up with is an alright pay then stop complaining. As with all jobs there are no doubt a bunch of semi incapable people in a lot of these positions that would have next to no chance getting another job, yet they still think they have the right to complain about it? As I said. For some people I'm sure the reason behind the strike is valid. I don't believe the action itself is though. Oh and if it were up to me I would wipe all unions off the face of this country. They are useless and serve no purpose other than as a complaints post for workers. I should know as I have to deal with the repercussions of them in my work. Apparently lorry drivers don't like the vehicles they drive being tracked. Even though they belong to the respective companies...
SO your boss says "right mate, there's a recession on you need to work an extra 10 hours every week and we are paying you 20% less as well"
That sound alright with you.
If you understand the figures involved you'd probably have a better understanding of whats going on, just my girlfriend for example, has to work 7 years longer, thats fine we live longer, will pay £31,000 more into her pension, okay she lives longer so it needs to stretch further, for 20% less of her original pension, how does that work?
almighty15
28-11-11, 11:34
SO your boss says "right mate, there's a recession on you need to work an extra 10 hours every week and we are paying you 20% less as well"
That sound alright with you.
If you understand the figures involved you'd probably have a better understanding of whats going on, just my girlfriend for example, has to work 7 years longer, thats fine we live longer, will pay £31,000 more into her pension, okay she lives longer so it needs to stretch further, for 20% less of her original pension, how does that work?
Its annoying me now, people commenting on a situation to which they know sweet FA about.
And if they were put in the same situation they would do the same thing mine and you GF are doing.
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It's nothing to do with the situation itself, it's down to how you would personally react to it.
I know that I wouldn't ever resort to striking and just not turning up for work because of it. I think I'd probably just be looking for another job...
almighty15
28-11-11, 13:51
It's nothing to do with the situation itself, it's down to how you would personally react to it.
I know that I wouldn't ever resort to striking and just not turning up for work because of it. I think I'd probably just be looking for another job...
My girl friend does not want to strike but HAS to else she's not covered by her union.
You'll find that most of them are in the situation.
And its ok looking for another job but there aint many jobs that pay like hers does.
Not to mention its her dream job amd a job she's got onto massive debt to study for.
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redrooster303
28-11-11, 14:03
I was watching the news earlier and they said you will have a 10% greater chance of dying if your in hospital over this week/weekend and I have just been to visit a friend in hospital who has double pneumonia.
Over the last couple of days(since I visited her and her family) I have had a really bad chest, throat, aching etc and I think I've caught it maybe or I've caught the infection the rest of my mates family had.
Not looking good for the next week:(
My girl friend does not want to strike but HAS to else she's not covered by her union.
You'll find that most of them are in the situation.
If most of them felt that way they wouldnt be striking as it wouldnt of won a vote surely?
My girl friend does not want to strike but HAS to else she's not covered by her union.
You'll find that most of them are in the situation.
That's fair enough, but again that's what I'm not a great fan of in the unions. They come across as bullies, even if they don't intend to be...
SO your boss says "right mate, there's a recession on you need to work an extra 10 hours every week and we are paying you 20% less as well"
That sound alright with you.
If you understand the figures involved you'd probably have a better understanding of whats going on, just my girlfriend for example, has to work 7 years longer, thats fine we live longer, will pay £31,000 more into her pension, okay she lives longer so it needs to stretch further, for 20% less of her original pension, how does that work?
This is the crux, public sector pensions are set in stone generally, so its quite difficult to bring in line with the rest, which generally get linked to an investment meaning you can get less.
I am happy for things to be brought into line, and yes, this affects my family too, but by the same token, I know how bad it feels to work towards a goal and suddenly see how massively it is changed, and how much it will cost me, so from that point of view I do not begrudge people striking, and fully respect their decision - however Im not sure striking is really going to be an effective measure in sorting this, as I cant see it helping the wider economy, and could possibly make things worse.
almighty15
28-11-11, 14:35
If most of them felt that way they wouldnt be striking as it wouldnt of won a vote surely?
It only takes 1% to be in favour of striking for it to happen.
51% for
49% against
Those 49% are forced into it and are given a bad name.
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thats not most though is it :)
I was just trying to lighten the mood, its a serious issue, and its not an easy decision for people to make, one way or another, and as a society we need to respect why people have made those choices even if we dont agree with them.
I dont agree with the decision to strike, but as said elsewhere, i will not judge someone for making a decision that they feel is right for them.
Im also not sure what you mean by not covered by her Union, surely she should be fine, at the end of the day, if shes asked to do anything that she doesnt agree with she could just leave as she is entitled to be on strike with her colleagues?
almighty15
28-11-11, 16:49
thats not most though is it :)
I was just trying to lighten the mood, its a serious issue, and its not an easy decision for people to make, one way or another, and as a society we need to respect why people have made those choices even if we dont agree with them.
I dont agree with the decision to strike, but as said elsewhere, i will not judge someone for making a decision that they feel is right for them.
Im also not sure what you mean by not covered by her Union, surely she should be fine, at the end of the day, if shes asked to do anything that she doesnt agree with she could just leave as she is entitled to be on strike with her colleagues?
Thats a typical view of someone who's based it on what they've read and heard.
In reality there's more to it, And if she doesn't strike and something happens at work and she needs help or back up from her union they will not help her as she is not covered.
I think this thread should be locked as the only people who truly understand the strike are people striking or have partners who are striking.
Its just mindless bashing from people who know next to nothing or don't understand because its not affecting them.
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Toonshorty
28-11-11, 17:06
Thats a typical view of someone who's based it on what they've read and heard.
In reality there's more to it, And if she doesn't strike and something happens at work and she needs help or back up from her union they will not help her as she is not covered.
I think this thread should be locked as the only people who truly understand the strike are people striking or have partners who are striking.
Its just mindless bashing from people who know next to nothing or don't understand because its not affecting them.
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tl;dr
This thread should be locked because people don't agree with my views.
I was watching the news earlier and they said you will have a 10% greater chance of dying if your in hospital over this week/weekend and I have just been to visit a friend in hospital who has double pneumonia.
Over the last couple of days(since I visited her and her family) I have had a really bad chest, throat, aching etc and I think I've caught it maybe or I've caught the infection the rest of my mates family had.
Not looking good for the next week:(
I will put money on the fact that this "calculation" was plucked out of thin air, and is stated purely to scaremonger.
I wholeheartedly believe that my colleagues will make sure that every poorly patient is looked after as well as they would be on a no strike day.
Its outpatient staff who are striking, few inpatient staff are involved. Certainly not those involved in life and death situations.
The worst that will happen is you stay an extra one night in hospital because you haven't had a physio assessment or theres a delay at the pharmacy.
And while expensive for the hospital its not going to kill anyone.
Your friend will not get poorer care. Hope she does OK.
I think this thread should be locked as the only people who truly understand the strike are people striking or have partners who are striking.
Its just mindless bashing from people who know next to nothing or don't understand because its not affecting them.
Can't say I agree.
I started this thread to gauge public opinion. Thats what we are getting. I think its fascinating.
I also "hope" that one or two people read the (seemingly bias) press and weigh it up against things on here, and come up with their own opinion, rather than the opinion that the government want people to have.
On a related but different matter, did anyone see this today:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15914145
The Treasury hopes two-thirds of the £30bn earmarked for infrastructure schemes will come from the National Association of Pension Funds and the Pension Protection Fund.
Hang on???? Whats this? The unsustainable pensions we are hearing about are having £20bn taken out for supporting "infrastructure".
People, if you didn't know it already, your pensions have just been anounced as a stealth tax.
chrissyburns
28-11-11, 18:28
Yassss schools are off :D
Yassss schools are off :D
There you go!!
Not EVERYONE's upset with us!
heavywater
28-11-11, 18:38
I think this thread should be locked as the only people who truly understand the strike are people striking or have partners who are striking.
Its just mindless bashing from people who know next to nothing or don't understand because its not affecting them.
But then surely the people who "truly understand" are inherently emotionally biased? Experience isn't a prerequisite of debate.
thats not most though is it :)
I was just trying to lighten the mood, its a serious issue, and its not an easy decision for people to make, one way or another, and as a society we need to respect why people have made those choices even if we dont agree with them.
I dont agree with the decision to strike, but as said elsewhere, i will not judge someone for making a decision that they feel is right for them.
Im also not sure what you mean by not covered by her Union, surely she should be fine, at the end of the day, if shes asked to do anything that she doesnt agree with she could just leave as she is entitled to be on strike with her colleagues?
i completely agree with you, to be fair, nothing wrong with standing up for what you believe in, but i still don't agree with the way in which they do things.......I want this? you take my sweet? i want sweet, i cant have sweet?, ok no-one has sweet.....surely they should come up with better idea's instead of just putting down tools at every moment they have a problem, and unions should get a grip also
Thats a typical view of someone who's based it on what they've read and heard.
In reality there's more to it, And if she doesn't strike and something happens at work and she needs help or back up from her union they will not help her as she is not covered.
I think this thread should be locked as the only people who truly understand the strike are people striking or have partners who are striking.
Its just mindless bashing from people who know next to nothing or don't understand because its not affecting them.
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stop driveling on, your not the only one with people you know or partners who its affecting. It doesn't mean everyone should agree with your opinion, its personal opinion
so don't see why the thread should be locked just because you "think" it should.......Itll all be over soon, they cant keep the strike going, something will give, and they will compromise
and if they don't, well there will be a hell of alot of unemployed in the upcoming years.
Like i said before i dont have a pension so it has no personal bearing to me.
However i will stand by my union and colleagues at the loss of £80+ for one days wage as i seriously believe these stupid politicians shouldnt be allowed to get away with it scott free. They have literally no accountability themselves. lead by example i always say, funny how their pensions aint bein touched aint it? Their too busy runnin around blaming everyone else other than themselves. Bail out northern rock with our taxes then sell it for 8 quid. Nice move. Wars abroad then complain we dont have money for our home country. Nice move. Rich keep getting richer whilst the 'commoners' keep getting shafted because of the lies n fake promises.
And a couple of others here are right, some of us have no option otherwise we are out of the union. If u want to worry about the economy its best one realises the impact of this public sector pension if we were all to pull out of it and go private.....
As per usual theres allot more to this than what our government policy biased media spew at us day in day out.
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I also "hope" that one or two people read the (seemingly bias) press and weigh it up against things on here, and come up with their own opinion, rather than the opinion that the government want people to have.
Sadly too many people blindly accept anything the government tells them to believe :(
Indeed, plenty of sheep to go around.
Supermoose
30-11-11, 15:59
Can you all please go back to work. It's too busy! I can't get anything done! Striking might be bad for the economy but today at least it's good for retail!
Some idiots from "uk uncut" have gotten into a building setting off flares and getting on the roof.
Posh Kid on Sky News atm talking crap about the rich, oh the irony.
Personally, I don't understand these strikes, but around here pretty much nothing has happened. The libraries were closed, as was my old high school. Apart from that, nothing much happened here. There was a minor car crash in the centre of the village, to which two police cars attended. That's about it.
My son's school was closed. Got to spend an extra day with him playing games (was too cold to do anything outside with my back), so I don't mind :)
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