View Full Version : Buying a 22\" TFT and dead pixel check....
Hi
I have noticed that Aria charge just short of £30 for a dead pixel check for a 22\" TFT. What happens to those TFT's that are checked but found to have a number of dead pixels that do not prevent them from still complying with the relevant ISO standard, and so be sold...?
Am I right to assume that those TFT's that are tested for a customer willing to pay are then re-boxed to sell normally.? As I can't imagine that a manufacturer will accept them back for 1 or more dead pixels...?
If the above is correct then it could be considered to be more of a risk buying a TFT from Aria without paying for the check, but that increases the purchase price.
Dead pixels aren't as bad as people make out.
I spent well over £500 on a Mac 23\" widescreen not so long back, and was appalled to find a dead pixel?which always looks red. However, a few months down the line, and I hardly notice it now.
Now... had the display had several, then I'd have been peeved (Apple calls them 'pixel anomalies'). However, I think I am right in saying that 1 or maybe 2 dead pixels are commercially acceptible?
So, perhaps Aria's deal is to check for you (for the sum of £30) that you are getting a PRISTINE display. If it's got 1 or 2 dead pixels, it goes back to the standard pile.
Which, could be badged, the 'commercially acceptible' pile?
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[quote:77b08f989b=\"PrivatePyle@Work\"]Excellent question. Depending on the number of dead pixels, they go back in the box and they get sold to people who have not purchased the dead pixel check option.[/quote:77b08f989b]
That seems evil doesn't it? :)
ISO standards say that class II TFTs (the ones we buy for monitors) are allowed 3 sub-pixel anomolies per million pixels...
So a 17\" or 19\" screen with a resolution of 1280x1024 (1.3M pixels) is allowed 4 sub-pixel anomolies.
Now imagine why I bought a dead pixel check with my 24\" dell that has a resolution of 1920x1200 - 2.3M Pixels means I'm allowed 7 sub-pixel anomolies...
And they're called anomolies because the sale of goods act says that all products must be free from minor defects... If they were pixel defects then they couldn't be sold under the sale of goods act.
The only other way to guarantee a perfect screen is to get hold of a class I panel - the ones used by the military and in medical imaging - just get out the credit card and the £8000 required for the 19\"...
Or get a dead pixel check... :P
I am using a 19\" Samsung 913n which has a dead pixel, stuck at the top. Over time I have grown used to it being there. For some people they see it as more of a problem than others. What is worse, in my opinion, is when it is a sub-pixel that flashes on and off - now those are irritating.
I understand that the ISO standard that applies to buying a monitor but it looks like I could be right in thinking that those monitors checked by Aria for the customers willing to pay for the check (which I am not) and do not comply with their dead pixel check will then be sold on to customers that don't.
So as I'm not prepared to pay £30 for them to check it for me I think that I would have more of a risk buying a dud from Aria than from any other shop.
A shame really as I applaud Aria for what they are offering, even if it is too pricey, but it has also created the above dilemma.
You've raised a very interesting point here. I bought my TFT from eBay last year (back when 19\" Widescreen was cool <_<) and was lucky enough to get no pixel anomalies.
I think that would only be problem if there was a very high rate of screens with pixel defects (that's right... I went there...). I doubt there are enough people buying dead pixel checks to effectively guarantee that if you don't get the check that you will get a pixel defect.
I also doubt that all screens that enter the Aria warehouse are checked and sorted into two heaps - ones with pixel issues and ones without they must get thousands of screens in a week and to check every one would be astronomical!
They probably just get your monitor from the warehouse and check it before it leaves - meaning that if the screen has an allowable number of pixel issues then it goes back into stock.
I guess it's like buying two lottery tickets - you just increase your chance of winning by spending more money...
My 22\" Samsung monitor has no deal pixels at all!
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my new ( 1 week old) LG 226wtq doesnt have any dead pixels i am very happy with it :D
http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Displays/Monitors/TFT+20%22+%26+21%22/22%22+LG++L226WTQ+Widescreen+2ms+?productId=27152
I would tend to think that if Aria received an order for a TFT that the customer ordered a dead pixel check and the first they checked had one then that TFT, I think I'm right in suggesting this, would go back on top of the pile of stock that they had for that particular TFT.
The next customer comes along (lucky me) and chooses the same TFT - can you guess where I'm going with this one.... :lol:
Even though I have dealt with Aria for years, over the counter, buying a TFT from them without a dead pixel check is more of a risk than any other supplier who doesn't offer a dead pixel check, as I see it. The risk my only be slightly more but I'd sooner weigh the odds more in my favour, especially when you can be stuck with that flashing / dead pixel.
I brought a 19\" TFT from aria, and in my ignorance, diidnt get a dead pixel check. Hey presto, dead pixel. The best advice has to be pay for the check if you buy a screen from aria, they probably send out the ones they know have dead pixels from when they tested them for someone else to people who dont buy the check. Personally i think its diabolical that they can sell monitors with dead pixels. If you pay for goods they should be pristine, its as simple as that in my eyes. If your brand new car had a minute stone chip in the paint when you got it deliverd, you wouldnt be happy. Its completle shite that retailers can get away with selling monitors they probably even know have dead pixels.
Course, it could just have been luck of the draw. The ISO standard is way off in my eyes, and should be changed.
I'm not sure it's as bad as it having a stone chip in the paint - however, if they quoted the car as having 125BHP and you measured it as having 124.8BHP I'm not sure they'd do anything to compensate you...
Imagine a standard 17\" TFT - 1280x1024 resolution - that's 1.3 million pixels.
Each pixel is 3 sub pixels - thats 3.9 million sub pixels.
If there's one red dot on your screen - that's a signel sub-pixel defect - that's 1 in 3.9million - or to put it another way - an incredibly small failure rate...
[quote:00c2bfda4c=\"Ben G\"]I brought a 19\" TFT from aria, and in my ignorance, diidnt get a dead pixel check. Hey presto, dead pixel. The best advice has to be pay for the check if you buy a screen from aria, they probably send out the ones they know have dead pixels from when they tested them for someone else to people who dont buy the check. Personally i think its diabolical that they can sell monitors with dead pixels. If you pay for goods they should be pristine, its as simple as that in my eyes. If your brand new car had a minute stone chip in the paint when you got it deliverd, you wouldnt be happy. Its completle **** that retailers can get away with selling monitors they probably even know have dead pixels.
Course, it could just have been luck of the draw. The ISO standard is way off in my eyes, and should be changed.[/quote:00c2bfda4c]
Dead pixels are just a risk you take when you buy TFT. Just because you get a tft which has no dead pixels doesnt mean one cant develop over time.
I had one bright green pixel in the middle of my Hyundai 19. It showed on a white background so net browsing etc.
A month later it has gone and its now dead pixel free! :)
There is pixel exerciser software people swear by although ive not tried this!
sorry, im clearly in the wrong for expecting a product i pay for to be in pristine condition.
silly me.
Well due to iso regulations, they unless military spec equipment, can have upto 20 i believe.
[quote:951fe28c85=\"Ben G\"]sorry, im clearly in the wrong for expecting a product i pay for to be in pristine condition.
silly me.[/quote:951fe28c85]
I think your missing something here Ben
Take a look at
http://vnuuk.typepad.com/pcw_interactive/2005/03/dead_pixel_poli.html
I think its good of Aria to be so open about the pixel policy
If you cant cope with the fact TFT's manufacturing process will always have dead pixels (or cant afford to pay class 1 military prices) i'd buy a good old CRT :)
The Architect
21-08-07, 17:30
If you cant cope with the fact TFT's manufacturing process will always have dead pixels (or cant afford to pay class 1 military prices) i'd buy a good old CRT
I have 2.
I have a dead pixel on my tft and tbh it annoyed me to start with but now i don't even notice it, unless i look for it.
[quote:d535a4dccc=\"mac124\"]I have a dead pixel on my tft and tbh it annoyed me to start with but now i don't even notice it, unless i look for it.[/quote:d535a4dccc]
Yea same. Mines wierd... when it displays a dark colour it shows as red :S but it's fine with a light colour.
See this
http://www.dps.uk.com/freeware_DTP.htm
People swear by it :)
Or for a more hands on approach >>>
http://www.wikihow.com/Fix-a-Stuck-Pixel-on-an-LCD-Monitor
:twisted:
Lovefist233
22-08-07, 17:40
I really dont think tapping a stuck pixel is a good idea, what if you damage it more???
I would try the pixel exerciser, but the hands on approach is only for the brave! :twisted:
I think your missing something here Ben
Take a look at
http://vnuuk.typepad.com/pcw_interactive/2005/03/dead_pixel_poli.html
I think its good of Aria to be so open about the pixel policy
If you cant cope with the fact TFT's manufacturing process will always have dead pixels (or cant afford to pay class 1 military prices) i'd buy a good old CRT :)[/quote:0525a53ea8]
i think your missing my point here Coiler.
Its nothing to do with arias policy i have issues with, im just in total agreement with the fella who wrote that article, which i quote:
[quote] I don't think I'm being unreasonable to expect that a brand new display would be fault-free when purchased from new.
I dont think thats unreasonable at all. 99% of other insdustries that find faults with finished products are forced to scrap or sell these as seconds, im just at odds as to why there is a double standard.
\"fault-free\" a dead pixel isnt a fault! its an anomaly which occurs in the manufacturing process.
If all TFT companies had to guarantee no dead pixels none of us would be using TFT's!!!!
Unless we were willing to pay thousands for them.
If you want a TFT please accept dead pixels come as a part and parcel risk. Unless you can accept this CRT is the only option for you unfortunetely. :)
[quote:a94217f0ca=\"Ben G\"]I dont think thats unreasonable at all. 99% of other insdustries that find faults with finished products are forced to scrap or sell these as seconds, im just at odds as to why there is a double standard.[/quote:a94217f0ca]
I'm afraid I agree with Coiler - in industries where they have a 1 in one million failure rate - they just throw away the part or sell it as a second - but if a TFT has a one in one million failure rate - but 4 million sub pixels on the screen then that's 4 sub-pixel defects...
I think it's about the failure rate and the ability for them manufacturer to influence what affects the failures...
What I have noticed though is that the more you pay for a screen the less defects you get - I've seen more cheap screens with defects than expensive Dells or Iiyamas for example.
I know the TFT industry is working towards a zero dead pixel policy and I know it seems unfair that if you buy a screen with a single pixel defect then you can't return it - but even in Six-Sigma terms a one in 4 million defect is tiny...
[quote:d9ce87d030=\"coiler\"]\"fault-free\" a dead pixel isnt a fault! its an anomaly which occurs in the manufacturing process.
If all TFT companies had to guarantee no dead pixels none of us would be using TFT's!!!!
Unless we were willing to pay thousands for them.
If you want a TFT please accept dead pixels come as a part and parcel risk. Unless you can accept this CRT is the only option for you unfortunetely. :)[/quote:d9ce87d030]
Im sorry bout youve been fed, and are now spouting the ******** i come acrross so much in the IT world.
Of course its a fault, its not supposed to be there. I have brought 3 TFT monitors a 17\", a 19\" widescreen and this 19\", a LCD HDTV and a smaller LCD tv, only one, yes one, has had a dead pixel. I refuse to belive its luck of the draw, unless im just one hell of a lucky guy. (untill now, obviously).
To use any other phrase and think that makes a differance is just foolish. Sorry its not a fault, its an anomaly, ****, that makes all the differance to me, im still stuck with an inperfect monitor.
Perhaps you could understand my gripe more - im a graphic, web and interactive media designer, this is a defect in my display, perhaps (when im in designer mode, not gamer mode ;)) one of the most vital peices of the system, it has to work well, and display things correctly. Now im sure your thinking \"wtf its only one pixel\" but if you were a designer, you would understand. If nothing else its made me produce more red work than before anyway - just so i cant see it.
The fact they can guarentee screens dead pixel free but then charge stupid money for them signals alarm bells. If you can make a shed load of cash selling something for a massive amount more than normal, why on earth would the manufactors even try and guarentee dead pixel free screens at the regular costings.
I do understand your points, and i know why the system works how it does. Im not being awkward here, i just think that its a bit of a joke, especially in this day and age were TFT's cost next to nothing to produce. It just seems that the computer industry is exempt from regualr trading laws, due to the fact the poepl who make and those laws are all abit scared by it all.
[quote:a6330e8da4=\"PrivatePyle@Work\"]Excellent question. Depending on the number of dead pixels, they go back in the box and they get sold to people who have not purchased the dead pixel check option.[/quote:a6330e8da4]
They do?
When the manufactory makes the monitors they are tested for a dead pixel check where they are made. If they dont find any then they continue to be boxed up and shipped out. So im guessing Aria have the right to send the monitors with dead pixels back because the staff members at the manufactory have not done their job properly.
(well thats what they do with Tvs)
[quote:ddf490b5ec=\"Ben G\"]
Perhaps you could understand my gripe more - im a graphic, web and interactive media designer, this is a defect in my display, perhaps (when im in designer mode, not gamer mode ;)) one of the most vital peices of the system, it has to work well, and display things correctly. [/quote:ddf490b5ec]
Buy a CRT then.
[quote:ddf490b5ec=\"Ben G\"]
Now im sure your thinking \"wtf its only one pixel\" but if you were a designer, you would understand. If nothing else its made me produce more red work than before anyway - just so i cant see it.[/quote:ddf490b5ec]
Thats why Aria offer a dead pixel check service which so few other companies offer! LOL
If Aria remove a brand new TFT from its sealed box for testing for a customer and during that test it is found to have defective pixels and so re boxed and put back into stock.
Is that TFT then still classed as being brand new and could be sold as such....?
[quote=\"coiler\"][quote:7291c305b9=\"Ben G\"]
Buy a CRT then.
[/quote:7291c305b9]
lol but who the hell would want a fat monitor
[quote:d5b6c90f19=\"coiler\"][quote:d5b6c90f19=\"Ben G\"]
Perhaps you could understand my gripe more - im a graphic, web and interactive media designer, this is a defect in my display, perhaps (when im in designer mode, not gamer mode ;)) one of the most vital peices of the system, it has to work well, and display things correctly. [/quote:d5b6c90f19]
Buy a CRT then.
[quote:d5b6c90f19=\"Ben G\"]
Now im sure your thinking \"wtf its only one pixel\" but if you were a designer, you would understand. If nothing else its made me produce more red work than before anyway - just so i cant see it.[/quote:d5b6c90f19]
Thats why Aria offer a dead pixel check service which so few other companies offer! LOL[/quote:d5b6c90f19]
You sir, cant read.
Your constantly missing the point. For the final time, this debate has nothing to do with the service aria provide. Infact im sure that Aria are better about the whole thing by the mere fact they offer this dead pixel check. Had i have known the service was there i would have taken it when i brought the monitor. Your standing on the front line of this and siding with aria, fine, but my problem isnt with aria, its with the fools who make the laws and standards in the first place.
I dont agree with the fact aria will knowingly send out pannels with dead pixels to customers (i imagine they have two piles, and if you dont order the dead pixel check your pretty much certain to get some dead pixels.) But this is perfectly within the laws and confines of the ISO specefication, so once again, actually take a few minuates from your day of ****-licking aria, and read what im posting.
If you consider buying a CRT as a viable solution, you really do need to wake up a bit. I could send you a 3d representation of my desk and workspace, and highlight the reasons why a CRT isnt viable in my situation, but quite frankly, i dont feel the need to waste my time on you. Surfice to say, if i had to buy a CRT for the sake of not getting dead pixels, i would then need to extend my house. Ive spent the last few years trying to rid my house of old cathode ray tubes, why on earth would i want to go and buy another?
Ill refer to my orginal point again, and ill make it bold in the hope you will read and understand it. if your buy something brand new from a retailer, it should not have any defects or faults. i consider a small red square on my brand new 19\" TFT to be a defect and a fault, as it IS NOT in prstine perfect working order. Trading standards laws apply for a reason. The TFT industry has created a ******** excuse to get itsself out of these standards, and this needs ot be rectified. Aria are simply the distributor, the problem does not lie with them, so please, stop defending a company you dont even work for.
Infact, thinkning about it, is Aria open the box and run a monitor for someone who orderd a dead pixel check, and it is found to have dead pixels, this is then reboxed and sold as new. This may well be a violation on trading standards laws, as the monitor has been used, and is, therefore, no longer brand new. Im certain the box my display came in had been opened before me, this isnt acceptable. If you buy a NEW monitor, it should have never been powered on since it left the factory.
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It isnt an unrealistic expence, as i have staed already i would of paid for the check if i had spent more time browsing the website. Should of been more carefull.
Apologies for the previous post, wasnt necisary.
-<cowering under table hugging my knees to my chest>-
{whispers} is it safe to come out yet?
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\"if your buy something brand new from a retailer, it should not have any defects or faults. i consider a small red square on my brand new 19\" TFT to be a defect and a fault,\"
Sorry ben its not a fault. As stated previosly an anomaly.
\"Trading standards laws apply for a reason. The TFT industry has created a ******** excuse to get itsself out of these standards, and this needs ot be rectified.\"
If it was such a big issue it wouldnt have gone on for so long, its accepted by trading standards that TFT manufacture is part and parcel with dead pixels. If every screen which had 1 through to the ISO limit on pixels were binned - TFT's would cost thousands.
I would prefer current TFT prices (£70-£90) with a reassuring £20 pixel check rather than paying £2000-£5000 so the industry is only allowed to sell military grade panels.
OMFG - I'm going back under the table...
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