My Possible Build?

[crazylegs1977]

Hi All,

I am looking for advice/opinions on the following spec for a build I'm hoping to do. Any improvements/upgrades, or issues that you may think I'll have: My main 2 areas of concern are:

1. will the PSU I have chosen be sufficient
2. Will the case provide sufficient cooling ( I am tempted to replace the stock CPU fan with Corsair CWCH70 water cooling system).

I have never used a water cooling system before. Does using one reduce significantly a CPU's running temp? (bearing in mind that the CPU I have chosen comes overclocked by aria)

I envisage this build to be a good all round machine and plan to use it for video editing/gaming. I am happy to use the mobo's onboard graphics - unless anyone can reccomend a better dedicated card for sub £50! :D

Here's my spec:

https://www.aria.co.uk/WishList/zAeAsLzS9DqeVQXdFh5Z3Q,,

I plan on running the 2 HDD's in a RAID array. I would also welcome comments on the investment of the Ble-ray Drive - basically is it worth the extra bucks or should I just go with a DVDRW (sata) drive and wait for the price to tumble (as it always does) on the Blu-ray? :confused:

Thanks

P.S: my budget is around £700 ;)

[Will]

It would be cheaper not to have a pre-assembled bundle :)

Also a blu ray drive is only needed if your planning on watching Blu rays :rolleyes:

You'll also want a graphic card so you can play games :chairfall:

[ZodiarK]

Hi their mate i speced this for you. thou got some sort of error adding 2nd f3 500 so price is around £711 for your raid

https://www.aria.co.uk/WishList/Agc-F0aozuOzb8q_6VVzEg,,

i have not included a better hsf cooler so extra £20-30 would get a good one.

It is far better and cheaper to build your own given you roughly know what your doing.

i realise it's slighty over ya budget but it will knock the backend outa anything you throw at in pretty much! always add a 2nd 5770 later on for good crossfire scaling.!

[Will]

If your a gamer this build with a 5850 is far superior

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/3200/ssadsag.png

The case is perfect when it comes to keep your components cooler. I have one and my CPU runs (using a Scythe Mungen 2) at load at 39C

[crazylegs1977]

It would be cheaper not to have a pre-assembled bundle :)

Yep your right! Why pay aria to do something I can do! :redface: The only reason I opted for pre-assembled was aria has overclocked the CPU.... but I guess I could do this with some help;)

Also a blu ray drive is only needed if your planning on watching Blu rays :rolleyes:

I have ditched in favour of the dvdrw you specced in your last reply. I'll keep my DVDROM though as I regularly do disc-disc copying! :D
You'll also want a graphic card so you can play games :chairfall:
I also like the Idea of the graphics card you specced and will double up when costs allow ;) to run them in a crossover config


one thing though... I do like the look of the case in my original spec....:D so will keep that (with the PSU from your spec) Unless you are concerned it wont provide sufficient cooling?

Thanks for the advice :thumb:

I'll post an updated build spec for you to look at (and comment on) :)

[crazylegs1977]

Hi their mate i speced this for you. thou got some sort of error adding 2nd f3 500 so price is around £711 for your raid

I do want 2 1TB drives to begin with as I will be doing extensive Video Editing and know I'll run outta space :D

https://www.aria.co.uk/WishList/Agc-F0aozuOzb8q_6VVzEg,,

i have not included a better hsf cooler so extra £20-30 would get a good one.

Will I need a better HSF cooler then or will the stock CPU one be OK?

It is far better and cheaper to build your own given you roughly know what your doing.

Agreed - See previous post

i realise it's slighty over ya budget but it will knock the backend outa anything you throw at in pretty much! always add a 2nd 5770 later on for good crossfire scaling.!

I'm gonna do the crossfire thing but will use the board I have specced as it's cheeper but still has crossfire facility :D


Thanks for the advice! :thumb:

As I said in my previous post I will post an updated build spec - feel free to comment further! :)

[crazylegs1977]

Hey guys as promised here is my updated build spec...

https://www.aria.co.uk/WishList/mAHEkPPtlln80aVloaVPvw,,

As you will see I have taken the hardware I like from both of your suggestions and added them to the hardware I wanna keep from my original spec. I guess thats a kinda hybrid :D

I have increased the PSU 2 a 600w... but like the idea of getting one with cable management as I hate a case full off unused power leads! :D

I'll start of with 1 Graphics card then get another later to crossfire them!

All in all I am pretty chuffed that this 'Hybrid Build' has come in under £700 bucks all in! :P

Now just gotta save the cash for the parts! Aint going down the finance route as the misus would kill me! :eek: lol

I'll keep ya posted as to my progress.... but doubt much will happen before end of August as I have the expense of a ca,ping hol coming up!

Cheers again guys! :thumb:

[Mr Moose]

That should be a very nice build. Do you really need a 6 core cpu? or could you save some more with a quad core AMD cpu?

[crazylegs1977]

That should be a very nice build. Do you really need a 6 core cpu? or could you save some more with a quad core AMD cpu?

Thanks I think it's gonna be a stonker of a build:cool:

In truth I could prob get away with a quad core! BUT I have a habit of running my older builds until way beyond their useful shelf life!:p For example my current build has been in service for prob 8yrs! so wanna future proof my Hybrid as much as poss! :D
Core spec of current PC is:

AMD Sampron 3800 (Socket A)
Asus A78NX Mobo but the deluxe version - was one of the first mobos to have onboard sata :p (That shows how old it is!)
2 HDD's 1 200GB & 1 160GB
128MB G-Force nvidia Chipset GPU
1GB Ram

I have managed to get Vista running on this..... Alas slowly!:P

Figure my new build will last as long! :thumb:

[Mr Moose]

Well at least it will get good life then :p do you really need 1tb? Could save a few quid with a f3 500gb. Just a thought.

[crazylegs1977]

Well at least it will get good life then :p do you really need 1tb? Could save a few quid with a f3 500gb. Just a thought.

I've actually sapprox pecced 2 x 1TB drives..... I know thats masses of storage but as I said in my OP I aim to use the machine for both gaming & video editing.... By video editing I mean ecoding and rendering then burning to DVD. I aim to Raid the 2 drive to increase performance!...

I currently have a total of approx 750GB of total HD storage space - This includes 2 ext USB drives as well as my exisitng 8 yr old HDD's. I reckon I am currently using aroung 50% of this..... so 2TB's should last a while! :)

When finances allow I'd like to switch the OS over to a SSD (#40982)! :P Thus giving me 2TB of pure storage for games, apps and video editing!

[Zaim]

Hey guys as promised here is my updated build spec...

https://www.aria.co.uk/WishList/mAHEkPPtlln80aVloaVPvw,,

As you will see I have taken the hardware I like from both of your suggestions and added them to the hardware I wanna keep from my original spec. I guess thats a kinda hybrid :D

I have increased the PSU 2 a 600w... but like the idea of getting one with cable management as I hate a case full off unused power leads! :D

I'll start of with 1 Graphics card then get another later to crossfire them!

All in all I am pretty chuffed that this 'Hybrid Build' has come in under £700 bucks all in! :P

Now just gotta save the cash for the parts! Aint going down the finance route as the misus would kill me! :eek: lol

I'll keep ya posted as to my progress.... but doubt much will happen before end of August as I have the expense of a ca,ping hol coming up!

Cheers again guys! :thumb:

looks good but i'd defiantly change the psu to this one, only £2 more for extra 100W

https://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Power+Supplies/OCZ/OCZ+ModXStream+Pro+700W+Modular+Silent+SLI/Crossfire+Ready+ATX2.2+Power+Supply+?productId=342 73

[I3R0K3N7FEET]

hi, personally i dont recommend cheap modular psu's at all. the modxtremes arent that good.

this is my recommendation, there is a fair bit spare from your budget to add extra cooling fans.

https://www.aria.co.uk/WishList/UJo-aWb9QGMCvoOGtlGr4Q,,

[Zaim]

hi, personally i dont recommend cheap modular psu's at all. the modxtremes arent that good.

this is my recommendation, there is a fair bit spare from your budget to add extra cooling fans.

https://www.aria.co.uk/WishList/UJo-aWb9QGMCvoOGtlGr4Q,,

looks good. I thought that the modx ones were better than the steath ones.

[crazylegs1977]

hi, personally i dont recommend cheap modular psu's at all. the modxtremes arent that good.

this is my recommendation, there is a fair bit spare from your budget to add extra cooling fans.

https://www.aria.co.uk/WishList/UJo-aWb9QGMCvoOGtlGr4Q,,

Hi Thanks for the advice & recommendation.... As I said in an earlier reply I want to keep both optical drives as i'd like to be able to disc-disc copy.

I am interested in your opinion on the comparison between your specced asrocks mobo vs my asus choice.... are the features comparible? as your option is cheaper then mine :) so might be able to save a few pounds there!

You say you don't rate mod extreme PSU's, but have specced one! :confused: I would be interested to hear your alternatives?

I really like the case I have chosen... so wont budge on that one i'm affraid! :D (So any further posters with recomendation please take note and don't change the case) :thumb:

Can you recommend a couple of good - quiet - case fans to chuck in?

Thanks again for your advice! :thumb:

[crazylegs1977]

looks good. I thought that the modx ones were better than the steath ones.

Hi Thanks I think it's pretty good myself! :)

I didn't realise it would only be an extra £2 to upo it to a 700w PSU... so will deff do that. :D

So you think the mods are better then the stealths? I like a tidy case and the cable management system!
Apologies to I3r0k3N7FEET - I have just realised he did spec an alternative PSU to mod extreme just read it quick :o lol

[I3R0K3N7FEET]

Hi Thanks for the advice & recommendation.... As I said in an earlier reply I want to keep both optical drives as i'd like to be able to disc-disc copy.

I am interested in your opinion on the comparison between your specced asrocks mobo vs my asus choice.... are the features comparible? as your option is cheaper then mine :) so might be able to save a few pounds there!

You say you don't rate mod extreme PSU's, but have specced one! :confused: I would be interested to hear your alternatives?

I really like the case I have chosen... so wont budge on that one i'm affraid! :D (So any further posters with recomendation please take note and don't change the case) :thumb:

Can you recommend a couple of good - quiet - case fans to chuck in?

Thanks again for your advice! :thumb:

the asrock mobo has much more features over the asus and can run x8 x8 crossfire should that ever be a choice where the asus only does x8 x4 which is pretty much useless bar for low end graphics. it has better board lay out too which is good for cabling and everything else should be on par with the asus. value you cant ignore imo.

the stealthxtremes are pretty good the modxtremes arent particularly up to much imo though its just preference. im sure there are some who will sing praises and horrors of both. personally i would say go for a xigmatek or corsair psu.

add another drive. fwiw blu ray drives dont copy and adding another drive is cheap so it wont break the budget. :D

the case i have specc'd is one of the best on the market you wont regret it. also consider the fractal design case too. the nzxt is what it is, a budget case. imo £700 you should be looking at £70 on a case

personally i like the xigmatek fans for noise to cooling ability but if you want quiet look at these

http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Fans%2C+Heatsinks%2C+Coolers/Case+Fans/120mm+Case+Fans/120mm+Sharkoon+1000+%22Golf+Ball%22+Quiet+Case+Fan +?productId=40625

http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Fans%2C+Heatsinks%2C+Coolers/Case+Fans/120mm+Case+Fans/Scythe+Gentle+Typhoon+120mm+1450+RPM+Cooling+Fan+? productId=40454

http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Fans%2C+Heatsinks%2C+Coolers/Case+Fans/120mm+Case+Fans/Fractal+Design+120mm+Silent+Series+Cooling+Fan+?pr oductId=40453


in these charts you will see that the modxtremes do not give the same power as the stealth extremes. bar the 500w versions.
http://www.ocztechnology.com/images/awards/mxsp_wattage_charts.jpg
http://www.ocztechnology.com/res/manuals/SXS2700w_WattChart.jpg
http://www.ocztechnology.com/images/awards/sxs_700_pins.jpg
http://www.ocztechnology.com/res/manuals/SXS2_allcharts.jpg

[I3R0K3N7FEET]

btw what resolution are you gaming at and what types of games?

you could drop down to a 5750/5670 or even if you wanted more raw power get a 4890 if DX 11 isnt your thing.

[k3vst3r]

Corsair make quality psu's, my HX850 is backed by 7 year warranty :thumb:
If games an general use are the use of this computer look at AMD X3's triple core, the 460 GTX 768MB is pretty good buy if you need decent dx11 performance.

[I3R0K3N7FEET]

Corsair make quality psu's, my HX850 is backed by 7 year warranty :thumb:
If games an general use are the use of this computer look at AMD X3's triple core, the 460 GTX 768MB is pretty good buy if you need decent dx11 performance.

thanks, op stated video editing/gaming as use and only has a £700 budget.

how much is the corsair hx850 these days? £700? ;D lol jj

[k3vst3r]

thanks, op stated video editing/gaming as use and only has a £700 budget.

how much is the corsair hx850 these days? £700? ;D lol jj

:knock: Not too bad got mine off forum member like for 50% retail price shipped :thumb: still 6 years 6 months left on the warranty :D. Still overkill for my rig pull around 600 watt from the wall using watt meter to measure.

[I3R0K3N7FEET]

bargain! ;D

[Zaim]

@ I3r0k3N7FEET didn't know the output on those isn't good. i'd take the stealth one or a Corsair 650+ :)

[k3vst3r]

hi, personally i dont recommend cheap modular psu's at all. the modxtremes arent that good.

this is my recommendation, there is a fair bit spare from your budget to add extra cooling fans.

https://www.aria.co.uk/WishList/UJo-aWb9QGMCvoOGtlGr4Q,,

This is good build tbh, but i would change the 5770 for 460 768Mb version

[crazylegs1977]

the asrock mobo has much more features over the asus and can run x8 x8 crossfire should that ever be a choice where the asus only does x8 x4 which is pretty much useless bar for low end graphics. it has better board lay out too which is good for cabling and everything else should be on par with the asus. value you cant ignore imo.

the stealthxtremes are pretty good the modxtremes arent particularly up to much imo though its just preference. im sure there are some who will sing praises and horrors of both. personally i would say go for a xigmatek or corsair psu.

add another drive. fwiw blu ray drives dont copy and adding another drive is cheap so it wont break the budget. :D

the case i have specc'd is one of the best on the market you wont regret it. also consider the fractal design case too. the nzxt is what it is, a budget case. imo £700 you should be looking at £70 on a case

personally i like the xigmatek fans for noise to cooling ability but if you want quiet look at these

http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Fans%2C+Heatsinks%2C+Coolers/Case+Fans/120mm+Case+Fans/120mm+Sharkoon+1000+%22Golf+Ball%22+Quiet+Case+Fan +?productId=40625

http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Fans%2C+Heatsinks%2C+Coolers/Case+Fans/120mm+Case+Fans/Scythe+Gentle+Typhoon+120mm+1450+RPM+Cooling+Fan+? productId=40454

http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Fans%2C+Heatsinks%2C+Coolers/Case+Fans/120mm+Case+Fans/Fractal+Design+120mm+Silent+Series+Cooling+Fan+?pr oductId=40453


in these charts you will see that the modxtremes do not give the same power as the stealth extremes. bar the 500w versions.
http://www.ocztechnology.com/images/awards/mxsp_wattage_charts.jpg
http://www.ocztechnology.com/res/manuals/SXS2700w_WattChart.jpg
http://www.ocztechnology.com/images/awards/sxs_700_pins.jpg
http://www.ocztechnology.com/res/manuals/SXS2_allcharts.jpg

Thanks again... Curiosity got the better of me and I looked at a couple of you tube vid reviews on the coolermaster case..... WOW:D I may just have to blow my £700 budget slightly and go for this case! your right it is a monster of a case! :lol: I'm glad curiosity got the better of me! Thanks I3r0k3N7FEET for the recomendation! :clap

Ive gone approx £50 over budget (exc delivery and come up with this spec....

https://www.aria.co.uk/WishList/mAHEkPPtlln80aVloaVPvw,,

To save some wonga:

I could downgrade the HDD size but wanna use it for video editing so need it!

I could also switch to the asrock mobo that you suggested but will I need to the switch the viper ram for an alternative?

Looking for peeps opinions on which board is best bang for bucks:

This: #40258 or #40954

Cheers!

[crazylegs1977]

Update: having just read the post re PSU's I have switched to the corsair 650W with SLI crossfire compliance!

I wanna keep the Graphics card I got so the 2 build options I have now come in @ £750ish and £720is exc delivery respectively!

not too bad and thanks all for the advice!

[Zaim]

Update: having just read the post re PSU's I have switched to the corsair 650W with SLI crossfire compliance!

I wanna keep the Graphics card I got so the 2 build options I have now come in @ £750ish and £720is exc delivery respectively!

not too bad and thanks all for the advice!

looks good m8, that corsair psu is a great choice :thumb:

as for the mb im not too sure, but i always go for Asus

Edit: you could save £10 by getting this ram instead:
https://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Memory/DDR3+Dual+Channel+%E2%80%93+1600MHz+/+PC3-12800/G.Skill+RipJaw+4GB+(2x2GB)+DDR3+PC3-12800C9+1600MHz+Dual+Channel+Kit+?productId=37612

or much more if you went for this:

http://www.aria.co.uk/SuperSpecials/Other+products/OCZ+Gold+4GB+(2x2GB)+DDR3+PC3-10666C9+1333MHz+Dual+Channel+Kit+?productId=37540

if your going to overclock it is better to get the 1600 one, but as the 1333 is much cheaper it might be the better choice.?

[k3vst3r]

Ain't asrock sub division of asus

ASRock Inc. is a manufacturer of motherboards, netbooks, and HTPCs, based in Taiwan and chaired by Ted Hsu, one of the co-founders of parent company Asus. ASRock was originally spun off from Asus in 2002 in order to compete with companies like ECS and Foxconn for the commodity OEM market. Since then, however, ASRock has also gained momentum in the DIY sector and plans for moving the company upstream began in 2007 following a successful IPO on the Taiwan Stock Exchange.[1]

Taken off wiki

[Zaim]

That asrock motherboard doesn't support Crossfire.
so if that is something you would want to do i'd get the OCZ memory i posted in my above post and this motherboard:
https://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Motherboards/AMD+Socket+AM3/Asus+M4A89GTD+Pro+AMD+890GX+(Socket+AM3)+DDR3+PCI-Express+Motherboard+?productId=39747

Edit: just noticed, you've added a dvd burner and a dvd reader.

[I3R0K3N7FEET]

That asrock motherboard doesn't support Crossfire.


???


Supports ATI™ Quad CrossFireX™, 3-Way CrossFireX™, CrossFireX™ and Hybrid CrossFireX™

on top of that the asrock mobo is unique in its class because it supports x8 x8 crossfire, in fact other than the hd4250 vs hd4290 this mobo is likey to be the BEST non 890 motherboard on the market.

the asus only supports x8 x4 crossfire.

http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=880G%20Extreme3&cat=Specifications
the mobo should be fine with any ram.

this asrock for the price beats the asus hands down. not to say the asus is bad mind. its the ops choice ultimately :)

http://www.asrock.com/mb/photo/880G%20Extreme3%28m%29.jpg

[Zaim]

???



on top of that the asrock mobo is unique in its class because it supports x8 x8 crossfire, in fact other than the hd4250 vs hd4290 this mobo is likey to be the BEST non 890 motherboard on the market.

the asus only supports x8 x4 crossfire.

http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=880G%20Extreme3&cat=Specifications
the mobo should be fine with any ram.

this asrock for the price beats the asus hands down. not to say the asus is bad mind. its the ops choice ultimately :)

http://www.asrock.com/mb/photo/880G%20Extreme3%28m%29.jpg

i was going by the model number not the picture. your looking at the wrong one "880G Extreme3"

this is on aria's website:)
http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=880GXH/USB3

https://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Motherboards/AMD+Socket+AM3/ASRock+880GXH/USB3+AMD+880G+(Socket+AM3)+Motherboard+?productId= 40954

[k3vst3r]

i was going by the model number not the picture. your looking at the wrong one "880G Extreme3"

this is on aria's website:
http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=880GXH/USB3

https://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Motherboards/AMD+Socket+AM3/ASRock+880GXH/USB3+AMD+880G+(Socket+AM3)+Motherboard+?productId= 40954

good catch

[I3R0K3N7FEET]

D: i never spotted that!!! good catch indeed!

i have totally made a balls up!

hmm maybe aria should stock the extreme 3 in question then!! afaik it retails for 80-90

lol get the asus ;D

[Zaim]

D: i never spotted that!!! good catch indeed!

i have totally made a balls up!

hmm maybe aria should stock the extreme 3 in question then!! afaik it retails for 80-90

lol get the asus ;D

Thanks, no problem m8 everyone makes mistakes :thumb:

[crazylegs1977]

Hi all,

Wow what can I say! I never thought that choosing a mobo would create such debate :D lol

Having read, cogitated & and eventually digested everything. I have come to the following conclusions:

1. I have switched to the G-skill memory that Zaim suggested ... After all £10 can buy me a some cans to chill when I've completed the build! :P - Thanks Zaim... have a beer for your efforts! :popcorn:

2. The mobo choice.. now this is tricky I may stick with the asus I originally specced. That way I can get all the parts from aria! - total build (inc delivery just under £760!

OR

I have managed to source the asrock one for approx £79!:D

(I wished aria stocked that asrock...... it totally rocks man! :()

I'll take a couple of days to mull it over....

any help would be appreciated!

@ I3r0k3N7FEET - Do you know of any websites that provide a comparison between x8 x8 crossire (asrocks) & x8 x4 (asus)?.... Oh and I forgive you for getting me excited about the asrock mobo! lol :)

Thanks again everyone!.... I think I'm nearly there with the final spec for my build.....just the mobo to decide on

[I3R0K3N7FEET]

hi, yeh it is a shame aria dont stock it! it is an awesome board im sorry i thought that aria did have it!

the asus i am sure is a great board anyway.

full speed for a pci e 2.0 lane is x16 which is what you will get when using a single card

if you should choose to go crossfire

it will depends on the graphics card EG a 5970 will be bottlenecked much more than a 5770 and there are variences between x16 to x8 crossfire from 1-15% depending on chipset and cards being used. x4 crossfire reviews are few and far between as quite simply... noone does it.

say generally
x16 = 100% performance
x8 = 95% performance
x4 = 75% performance

if you have found the asrock 880g extreme 3 for £79 then maybe ask rawz is aria can get them in, as that is still a great price, personally in a push came to shove i would likely personally choose the asrock extreme 3 even if it were the same price as the asus purely on the basis that the sata ports are not slap bang in the middle of the board but at a 90degree angle which is much better for cabling. esp if you are seriously considering crossfire in future.

you can ask other of their opinion of this too.. many will say that it is best to get the asus for well.. it is an asus, it will be a good board. many people will say against asrock as they are considered a 'budget brand' but in recent years this isnt the case and are respectable in their own right.. i think someone from aria was saying that asrock has one of the lowest board return rates of all makers simply because they are made well. but hey there is a chance of a problem with any maker.

ultimately it is your choice :)

[Will]

I think my 790FX board does x16/x16 crossfire ;)

[I3R0K3N7FEET]

I think my 790FX board does x16/x16 crossfire ;)

and quad 8x ;D

[crazylegs1977]

hi, yeh it is a shame aria dont stock it! it is an awesome board im sorry i thought that aria did have it!


It appears that they noe do stock the asrock board :D

http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Motherboards/AMD+Socket+AM3/ASRock+880G+Extreme3+%28Socket+AM3%29+DDR3+PCI-Express+Motherboard+?productId=41129&rqcType=c#rqc

[I3R0K3N7FEET]

hi yeh rawz got it in :thumb:

from what i understand there was an early issue with certain ram but nothing a bios update wont sort.

[ZodiarK]

Ain't asrock sub division of asus

ASRock Inc. is a manufacturer of motherboards, netbooks, and HTPCs, based in Taiwan and chaired by Ted Hsu, one of the co-founders of parent company Asus. ASRock was originally spun off from Asus in 2002 in order to compete with companies like ECS and Foxconn for the commodity OEM market. Since then, however, ASRock has also gained momentum in the DIY sector and plans for moving the company upstream began in 2007 following a successful IPO on the Taiwan Stock Exchange.[1]

Taken off wiki


i thought asrock left asus they used to with them as the cheapo brand but now have become their own and their products are bang for buck!

[wonderlust]

Asrock have been on their own for a few years now.

That's why their products have gone from budget-medium to medium-high