View Full Version : Programming + next language?
I am semi-proficient with VB.Net, and want to improve my skills by expanding my languages. I learnt with VB, so am looking for a similar language, and I thought C++, or C#?
I am not limited to those 2, just thought they were quite popular. Also, does anyone know of any courses that can be done over the internet (like people do degrees over the internet), to do with programming, where you gain a qualification at the end?
I basically want to expand my knowledge and make me more employable by increasing my ability.
Mr. Grapes
16-06-10, 17:38
I would avoid C++ unless you want to spend 10 years perfecting your craft... it's a tricky struggle for the first 3 years as you have to do all your own memory management and until you get your head round that properly, your code will be fragile.
C# is deffo the language du jour to learn atm, all the jobs i'm looking at these days are C# with only really maintenance of C++ going. a real PITA if you're a C++ coder and want to change up...
or go the other way and lean objective C and do iPhone/iPad apps
agreed, c# is a good one at the moment - or if you want to go Android apps then Java.
DT.
Is there anything eaiser then VB.net?
I want a drag and drop kinda thing with links i can choose, I bit like microsoft frontpage but building programs & not websites:lol::redface:
Yeah C# is widely used. C++ still has it's place, but more for applications where every cycle is needed, e.g. games, low-level OS/driver code, etc. etc.
I don't code it myself but my colleague here does and it's quite impressive how quickly he can knock up applications in it, I must confess.
Mr. Grapes
16-06-10, 18:07
C++ is VERY powerful... but requires a lot of knowledge to harness that power. until then it's a dangerous weapon...
If I want to knock an app up quickly, I'll do it in C#.
If it needs ultra performance, C++. doing something quickly in C++ is possible, but lots of things that are built into the .net framework and take maybe a line or 2 of code, will take a screenfull in C++
Lorem-Ipsum
16-06-10, 18:14
I'm not too good with many languages as for me in linux a short script will suffice but for that purpose I like python as its compact. Will have to learn C in the end. lol
If you know one language I wouldn't go for something similar, I would do something different.
Java is nice and easy to learn.
I am doing a little bit of Java at college at the moment and easy is not a word I would use to describe it!!
case sensitivity REALLY ****es me off - 1 wrong letter lower case and the whole code ceases to work. Very useful though, as a web tool, so I would probably learn that sooner or later.
Looks to be C# then, the way I see it, C++ had its time and C# has taken over, kind of, if that is true? Thats good cos my computing textbook which we use for VB has the code examples in pascal and C# too, so I can just learn C# in the exact way I learnt VB.Net
Also, perhaps a stupid question -
firstly, visual studio express - how does it differ from the full edition?
also, visual studio 2008 - how does it differ from visual studio 2010!?
Same question for visual C# and the older version. Does the code actually change? or are more features added?
I can tell I have only just touched the iceberg of programming, but it looks to be a lot more complex than originally thought... . . . . lol
thanks for the advice guys
Lorem-Ipsum
16-06-10, 19:28
The thing is as I use linux most programming languages are written in the shell and executed there too. I'm not sure how you do it on windows.
Java is quite easy when you get the hang of it. I agree case sensitivity is annoying but if you use syntax highlighting its noticeable.
On most machines I use http://bluefish.openoffice.nl/ but TBH I prefer working in the shell.
InvaderGIR
16-06-10, 19:31
Java annoyed me intensely and I wanted to go into C (any derivative). Did my FYP in C++ and whilst it was good to use and I prefer it to Java...the jobs (if that's what you're doing it for) are few and far between. Java Dev jobs are much more common and gain a lot more money...I know where I'm headed. ;) Despite not liking it due to being bloated and generally annoying.
I wouldn't say C# has taken over from C++ at all, C# is as far as I'm concerned a clone of Java (or vice versa), C++ actually requires you to use your noggin and straight C...well...lets just not talk about that. :p
This thread is a different language, to me anyway :S
[ snip ]
Looks to be C# then, the way I see it, C++ had its time and C# has taken over, kind of, if that is true?
[ snip ]
On the contrary! C# is a Micro$oft proprietary language, C++ is generic and much more cross-platform.
I used to code in VB back when 5 or 6 was the current incarnation. Picked up a copy of Borland's C++ Builder and have never looked back, nor wanted to look at C#. While it's true, using C# may only require a few lines of code compared to a "screen full" of C++ (the same as any library or framework)... that same screen full of code won't require your end user to download a 200Mb+ or whatever framework to run your single application ;) I can release a largish C++ application, create and installer and deploy it in the region of between 1.5 and 10Mb (including either Office 2003 or 2007 toolbars etc if you want fanciness).. you can't do that if you rely on the .NOT framework :)
Regards,
Ian
ah Ok - so C# is more web based and C++ is application and management?
looking at C# it is quite similar to VB... shouldn't be too hard to get the head around. hopefully :P
thanks
InvaderGIR
16-06-10, 20:25
What?
C# isn't web-based. How'd you work that one out? If that is to do with me saying it's very similar to Java, I'm on about Java as in the programming language, not java-script the internet language. Two very different things.
Oh, and yeah, it is like VB, a bit.
Mr. Grapes
16-06-10, 20:41
@Ian.H I'm just being realistic to the lad... the job market right now is screaming for c# devs, and hardly any c++ ones, unless they are specifically targeting linux or cross platform applications (or low level driver and high performance apps)
yes c# and .net are proprietary, but .net can be written for linux through MONO if need be.
to say c++ is dying is not really fair, just becoming more specialised, and the amount of jobs is really < the amount of devs hunting them. and as for junior C++ jobs... well not really happening, unless you count the plethora of mid and senior level jobs being offered at junior pay...
I won't deny there's probably more jobs for C# coders than C++, but just had to mention that C# hadn't replaced C++ and that regardless of what the job market is or preference of language, it still requires the end user to download a massive framework in order to get applications to run :)
I'm all for the "right tool for the right task". I wouldn't code a web application in C++ for example, nor would I write a C++ app for simply parsing a log file for some results (Perl etc would be much more my preferred language for that).. and although I have out of curiosity, I wouldn't recommend the likes of Perl+Gtk for writing complex desktop applications either :)
Agreed you can use MONO on *nix.. but isn't that much like using WINE to run Photoshop? It'd work, but it won't be the best scenario.
I guess it really boils down to where you want to take things in the future. If you want to be able to code for any platform, then I'd suggest learning C++ and then possibly picking up C# as a kind of "subset", the same as if you're only looking to code as a hobby... but if you're looking to develop windoze only applications as a career path maybe C# would be the better option.
All in all, IMO, you can never learn too many languages.. I'm personally just not too keen on proprietary code bases :)
Regards,
Ian
Hi faz,:)
Fom personal experience, I'd say that if it is for job prospects then the high level languages such as C#, VB, etc are more desirable (as that is where many jobs are).
However if you want to learn new languages for the enjoyment and expanding your knowledge, then there is nothing more satisfactory then good old C, C++, and other low level languages (if you have a passion for it).
if you're talking money and languages, then go Websphere + Java.
That's where the real big dosh is at, just for essentially a sysadmin who 'tinkers' with existing code bases. The ones who write this stuff from the ground up and architect solutions are on silly money :)
DT.
ok... I will stop assuming things lol, always wrong :P
next year I am doing a C+G Web Design course, at level 3 (although I only know a little HTML and CSS), it says I will use javascript, though I very much doubt it is the coding... shame really.
would you say you had to be very proficient at html and perhaps php before attempting java? surely they all work together on a web page, so without one the other cannot work really? I genuinely don't know...
InvaderGIR
16-06-10, 23:01
JS and Java are different. ;)
Knowing HTML and CSS would aide with JS certainly...not really at all with Java. Knowing VB and/or C# would help with Java. :)
ok I am definitley talking about JS... :P
With regards to JS, where is a good environment to program? I usually use Notepad++ but as someone said earlier, it doesn't point out any errors....
For my web dev stuff (HTML, CSS, PHP and Javascript), I use NuSphere PhpED (http://www.nusphere.com/), although if you're looking for a free editor, Komodo Edit (http://www.activestate.com/komodo-edit/downloads) isn't too bad (I use Komodo for my Perl coding) :)
If you're looking at learning Javascript, you might also want to look at the likes of jQuery (http://jquery.com/) as a Javascript / Ajax framework too... is quite common these days for "web2.0" sites.
Regards,
Ian
I use programmers notepad a lot
DT.
ok, komodo was going at 22kbps so I will do that tomorrow, PN I just downloaded and will give a go tomorrow. I also downloaded Aptana Studio, after some googling... will have to see...
thanks fellas
Lorem-Ipsum
17-06-10, 00:22
I really can't recommend http://bluefish.openoffice.nl/ more for use in web coding such as html, css and JS.
Vim (http://www.vim.org/), I use it for all my coding. Bit of a steep learning curve to start but definitely worth it in the long run.
InvaderGIR
17-06-10, 01:12
Vim (http://www.vim.org/), I use it for all my coding. Bit of a steep learning curve to start but definitely worth it in the long run.
Agree with this on Linux systems, or on Windows I'll use TextPad.
I very much dislike things like NetBeans, Visual Studio etc. would rather write it all neat and tidy myself and compile from the command line myself as well.
I just use gvim on windows. One editor to rule them all :D
Lorem-Ipsum
17-06-10, 09:58
Vim is amazing in a cli environment but unless your used to it and linux, it is really hard to get used to. I've been using it a while and I still have a cheat sheet on my wall thats about A3.
Vi forever.
I often find myself typing [escape]:wq into notpad++ (which is the editor i tend to go for when stuck in windows).
Vi forever.
I often find myself typing [escape]:wq into notpad++ (which is the editor i tend to go for when stuck in windows).
Just get gvim (http://www.vim.org/download.php#pc)? Closer to Vi than notepad++
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