PDA

View Full Version : new gaming pc advise please



ant9985
01-03-07, 16:12
hi all, sorry to trouble you with this but im building new computer as my current one has issues which i wont go into. the game i will be playing mostly this year will be supreme commander, but would like this pc to be able to play some of the latest games for 2 years or so. Ill be linking my current 17\" monitor with the new 22\" one below for duel monitors. And using a 250gb harddrive from my old pc for storage.

here are the specs iv chosen with links:

Harddrive: WD 150Gb Raptor SATA 10k/150/16Mb
http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Hard+Drives/Serial+ATA/+WD+150Gb+Raptor+SATA+10k%2F150%2F16Mb?productId=2 3817

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Retail
http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/CPUs+%2F+Processors/Intel/Core+2+Duo/+Intel+Core+2+Duo+E6600+Retail?productId=23828

Case: Antec Nine Hundred Ultimate Gamer
http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Cases/MIDI+Tower/+Antec+Nine+Hundred+Ultimate+Gamer?productId=25541


Ram: Corsair TwinX 2GB XMS2 Dominator
http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Memory/DDR2/DDR2+1000+%28PC8000%29/+Corsair+TwinX+2GB+XMS2+Dominator?productId=25516

Screen: 22'' Xerox XM3-9WB Widescreen TFT
http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Pc+%26+Displays/Monitors%2C+TFT/TFT+20%22+%26+21%22/+22%27%27+Xerox+XM3-9WB+Widescreen+TFT?productId=25737

Graphics card: Asus Extreme 8800GTS 640MB
http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Graphics+Cards/PCI-E/nVIDIA+GeForce+8+Series/+Asus+Extreme+8800GTS+640MB?productId=26147


the things im missing are a motherboard to match all this which will need enough fan connectors for that case :? and support SLi and quad cores
and also a power supply (im guessing ill need 600W+ for this). if somone could help me choose, that would be very nice.

i would appreciate any comments on the hardware iv chosen like if i should drop the raptor for cheaper HD and then buy GTX card instead of GTS or w/e. (is there a big difference between GTS and GTX?) any constructive critisism would be great. i need to know if theres gonna be any bottlenecks.

any extra cables i will need to buy, i dont want to buy the whole lot then realise im missing a cable somewhere..

and lastly, id like to know what extra cooling i should buy, ie. fans to replace the retail versions if they wont be able to last.

i also might have some questions later if thats ok?

thnx all :)

Barley
01-03-07, 16:22
What budget are you looking at for the motherboard and PSU?

Anonymous
01-03-07, 16:45
[Removed at the request of the author]

ant9985
01-03-07, 17:22
thnx for replys

@barley: i know nothing about motherboards and good power supplys,
so im not really sure on the budget side of things, what do u actually get when u pay more for motherboards? i allways thought u just buy a motherboard to fit the spec of your other hardware, but it gives me a headache when i look at them, theres so many different things on each one that i have no idea about.

@privatepyle@work: thnx for that, is the cpu powerfull enough? iv read that the E6600 and E6700 are relativly similar in speed, and ofcourse if ur buying anything faster it goes into quad core/£600 cpus.. but i didnt look at the amd chips, they are 64 bit duel cores arent they? and intel only 32?

Barley
01-03-07, 17:52
Well for PSU's, make sure you buy something quality, a good named brand, example:

http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Power+Supplies/500w+%2B/+Hiper++580W+Modular+PSU+BLACK?productId=21014

I'm not too clued up on C2D motherboards...

Aaron
01-03-07, 19:00
Core2Duos are 64bit :)

mac124
01-03-07, 19:13
Psu i'd recommend Seasonic 600watt and why do you want to SLi 8800's? It's a total waste of time on any res under 2048x whatever at the mo as the cpu will be a major bottle neck. That in mind i would thouroughly recommend the Asus P5B delux, good enough to get my 6600 to 3.6ghz as a 24/7 speed.

Barley
01-03-07, 19:19
Aria don't sell Seasonics, so didn't think I should recommend parts from other companies, but yeah Seasonic rock :)

mac124
01-03-07, 20:51
:( Well its about time they did :P

Barley
01-03-07, 21:01
[quote:b3d1adefc1=\"mac124\"]:( Well its about time they did :P[/quote:b3d1adefc1]

And Xclios, and half the other quality PSU's :)

ant9985
01-03-07, 23:30
naa hehe, im not gonna sli 8800s atm. thats for in a couple of years, when ill be upgrading to quadcore anyway, so there probably wont be a bottleneck.

but will there be a bottleneck with 1x8800?

hmm that 580W looks nice but wont i need more power for this?
is that the best make psu?

i keep hearing people say: \"you can never have enough RAM\" but im going to ask the question, do i have sufficient ram? those 2G DIMMs i have in the list were pretty expensive, are they good/worth the money? i know nothing about ram these days, the only reason i selected them was cause i saw somone else with them in his pc build.
last time i built a pc was around 2-3 years ago.

just out of interest, is there a motherboard that can support a future 8 core processor?

Xiathorn
02-03-07, 07:34
There isn't a mobo to support an 8core, afaik, but there is one that'll do both Core2Duo and QuadCores. Abit AB9 QuadGT Socket 775, about £100, I'm using it atm.

Watch out for the 8pin on the CPU power slot, it'll take a 4pin if you're using a Core2Duo, so you don't need to run around your local town looking for an adaptor like I did. Yes, I'm stupid.

Incidentally, I have an 6600, 2GB OCZ RAM, and the Gainward 8800GTS 640MB. Whilst I cannot comment on the advantages/disadvantages of a GTX, I can tell you now that the GTS will do pretty much everything you want straight off the bat. I get 60FPS in Oblivion, everything on max settings, HDR etc, and walking around the Great Forest. This is without any mods installed, clean installation.

In the power front, it's less about the watts and more about the ampage. Check that your PSU can give out the consistent amps that you'll need for the stuff. I might (MIGHT) have made a mistake with my PSU, and I've been having a few troubles since I purchased this rig a few weeks ago. Oh well, nothing I can't fix eventually.

In terms of performance, btw :
60FPS Oblivion, although it will drop sometimes, but never below 30.
FEAR FPS is Min 60, Max 325, Average 110 in the stress test, max everything.
Company of Heroes, max everything, is 90FPS average.
X3 runs beautifully, although exact FPS unknown.

Basically, the rig you're building will be perfect without a GTX...but that said, if you have got the extra £100 and you don't fancy mailing it to me, then you might as well spend it on a GTX.

Hard disks are always going to be the bottleneck when it comes to overall system performance, but in games they don't really affect much if you've got enough RAM. Don't bother with the raptor :)

And in response to the 8800GTS being a bottleneck : are you out of your ****ing mind? :P The 8800 is so powerful compared to current tech that everything else is a bottleneck. That applies to the GTS model as well as the GTX. Even if you got a Core2Duo Extreme and overclocked it to buggery, with some custom made RAM ****, you'd only be about matching the 8800...and everything on that rig would run so insanely fast that you'd just not care.

If you get that rig, you won't need to worry about 'bottlenecks' for a while at all, and when you do it won't be from the GPU.

In terms of cables, with the Abit AB9 QuadGT I got everything I needed in there, but I warn you : Do not assemble computer whilst drunk. I nearly broke the IDE slot on the board by trying to plug it in the wrong way around.

Ohh, yes that's a point. I'm using an IDE DVD Drive, with a SATA2 disk. I get some horrific weirdness going on that MIGHT - MIGHT - be caused by this. Ideally pick up a cheap SATA DVD-RW.

ant9985
02-03-07, 11:52
thnx for reply xiathorn
you assembled your computer whilst drunk? ^^ lol

i had to get help from the techies at college to build mine, i couldnt work out where everything went and there was some stuff that i never connected :S
but that was few years ago.
what kind of wierdness do u experience? i get unmountable boot volume blue screen error every month or less, and have to go into recovery console and do chkdsk and fixboot. i cant find any dvd drives that are SATA2 :-
btw

what does this mean in the pc case specification:

''Motherboard:
Fits micro and standard ATX.
7 Expansion Slots.''

im gonna need 6 fan connectors on the motherboard for the case fans and most of the motherboards iv looked at only have maybe 4 :-\\ .

i currently have a 250gb storage drive, what drive would u suggest i buy, to put my opperating system and games on?

Could i get some help from in here if i build it myself?

mac124
02-03-07, 17:44
A single 8800 will be slightly bottlenecked by a 6600 at stock speeds, from my experience anyway it is, whilst benching mine my gfx score increased with cpu speed this is what i can only put down to a slight bottle neck on the cpu.

Also loads of Conroe motherboards are compatible with quad core and if they aren't now i suspect a bios update will be all thats needed to sort it out.

ant9985
03-03-07, 13:29
ok thnx
cant find one with 8 fan connectors though, only that £234 striker.

mac124
03-03-07, 14:05
You don't really need a motherboard to drive all your fans, unless you want them to vary the speed automatically? Either run them directly off the psu or get a fan controller.

Also the case description basically means it will take 99% of all motherboars except the really tiny ones or maybe server boards. Just make sure the motherboard you choose is matx (micro atx) or standard atx size.

ant9985
03-03-07, 19:40
oh really?

thnx a lot!


mac, do u use a seasonic and an antec900 ultimate gamer case?
i read somewhere that the seasonics dont fit in or something or the power lead doesnt reach the motherboard :S

btw, in this topic: http://www.lucyslair.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1824
the guy has labour charge on his price list, whats that for?

what hard drive should i buy for my os and games?

mac124
04-03-07, 11:52
I have a Seasonic psu but i have a Lian Li Pc7b? case. If the psu cable is too short i am sure you can get extender cables if thats the combo you really want to have.

The labour charge in that other thread means he has had the pc built by Aria to his own specification.

Hard drive is basically upto you, it would be best to go for (probably have to use these days) sata / sata2 size well that depends on what you can afford and how much space you need, 250gb are reasonably priced imho at around £40-£50. Make well alot of people slate Maxtor but i have never had a problem with them and i have used alot, others to go for would be Samsung / Seagate or Western Digital, any major name really.

ant9985
04-03-07, 11:56
ok thnx very much mac, uv been a great help.
is the labour charge the same for any pc build, or does it varie for what hardware you have? and is it an option you can select at the check out?

mac124
04-03-07, 12:11
I'd assume its probably the same regardless of build, don't quote me on that though. As to how you add it i have no idea, never used it, there used to be a custom builder on the old website, i think, but i can't find it on the new one, sorry.

Anyone else know??

stoney
04-03-07, 13:58
its been temporarily taken away until the 'troubles' are over :roll:

ant9985
04-03-07, 14:05
ah really, thnx for letting me know

Xiathorn
04-03-07, 21:18
Incidentally, in response to the quadcore discussion, saying it'll work on a standard board : are you sure? The quadcore boards that I've seen all come with a different power input plug, due to the fact that the CPU requires considerably more power than average. I'm no electrician, so I could be wrong, but are you SURE that a quadcore is likely to work on a old, Core2Duo-compatible motherboard. I'd have said it's more likely that you'd need a board build to accommidate the massive increase in power requirements.

Oh, and on the \"what size case/motherboard\" and what it means, I would seriously take a look at the dimensions of the case. You ideally want a case that's rather large, and preferably NOT a micro-ATX motherboard. The 8800 is a very large card, I had to dismantle half of what I'd already built to fit it in because I'd not truely appreciated the size.

ant9985
05-03-07, 00:02
thnx for advice xiathorn

well, this is the case:
Oopsy naughty linky
but it doesnt give any internal dimmensions.
it does say it supports quadcore.

this is the motherboard:
http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Motherboards/Socket+775+%28Intel%29/+Asus+P5B+Deluxe+P965+Socket+775?productId=23805
iv seen people say they have 8800s with this case, so that isnt really an issue

Sorry ant had to delete the links to competitors websites, mac.

mac124
05-03-07, 08:35
@ Xiathorn, you are correct in that the quad core will use more power, for the simple reason its basically two dual cores in one package but if you look at the specs on ALOT of motherboards they all say they are capable of taking quad cores. I have the very same motherboard as listed above and according to their website (who i am more likely to believe than anyone else) it says..


Intel® Quad-core CPU Ready

So yes i would tend to think that the Asus P5B Deluxe is capable of running quad core.

I have an ABIT motherboard in my review pc and on Abits website it says the same.

Just because its not quoted as quad core ready or whatever on Arias description or other retails description doesn't mean it wont do it. :wink:

ant9985
05-03-07, 11:51
great, sry for links btw, didnt know it was disallowed

btw, which is better on the gfx card: core clock, memory clock, or shader clock? because they all varie on different manufacturers iv found

mac124
05-03-07, 19:01
Assuming you are comparing like for like then the higher the clock speed the better. However you can't compare different cards this way as there is more to it than that, number of pixel pipelines & shaders etc etc.

EG BFG 8800gtx is clocked at 575mhz and MSI's 7600gt is clocked at 580mhz but the 8800 will blow the 7600gt away in benchmarks.

ant9985
05-03-07, 22:44
ok, so its the higher clockspeed i should go for.

thnx

provo
06-03-07, 03:07
i have a small piece of knowledge for you after being advised off these fine people on my own set up last week (all now happily installed)
i opted for the antec nine hundred and my old psu power lead wasnt long enough so i went in hunt of an extension cable. no luck so bought a new psu .later found the extension lead at mapplins for £2.99. glad anyway cos i need new psu any how.
the lead has to be at least 450mm long to reach the mobo. you might think this strange but antec have placed the psu at the bottom of the case to aid with cooling issues, and boy does it work! got my 3800X2 (stock 2000Mhz) put it at full load and no issues ,still only touching 38`c with the AC 64 freezer pro (mighty BIG) strapped to it...the case is awesome m8 im sitting next to it now and only prob i have is it makes my legs cold..lol guess ill have to move it a bit further away, its not overly loud but is very large, another cooling aspect i suppose. having said that you wont be dissapointed with it ....the fans all have separate speed switches attached,i ve got all mine on low and system is running sweet as a nut ...highly recommended

ant9985
06-03-07, 09:52
ok thnx for that, i was wondering about the psu on bottom of case kinda thing. anyway, i cant seem to find the power lead lengh anywhere on the seasonic specs lol, so i guess ill just have to see, and get extension if it doesnt reach.

btw, does it reach everything else? iv been told i need to connect some of the fans to the psu if the motherboard cant run them all

Sean
07-03-07, 12:16
[quote:eb7006bf2f=\"Xiathorn\"]
In terms of performance, btw :
60FPS Oblivion, although it will drop sometimes, but never below 30.
FEAR FPS is Min 60, Max 325, Average 110 in the stress test, max everything.
Company of Heroes, max everything, is 90FPS average.
X3 runs beautifully, although exact FPS unknown.
[/quote:eb7006bf2f]

I'm on a GTX and I get considerably less than that: it sucks having a 24\" monitor running at 1920x1200.
Who am I kidding, it absolutely owns.

ant9985
07-03-07, 12:20
lol
ill be on 17\" tft
btw, iv decided to go with the Abit AB9 quadgt, as i dont think the asus p5b delux has sli, i saw on one site that sli had a cross next to it :-\\

Sean
07-03-07, 12:21
[quote:ab928244c6=\"ant9985\"]lol
ill be on 17\" tft
btw, iv decided to go with the Abit AB9 quadgt, as i dont think the asus p5b delux has sli, i saw on one site that sli had a cross next to it :-\\[/quote:ab928244c6]

Yep, if it's Intel and it has two PCI-E graphics connectors it's Crossfire.
Has to be an nvidia chipset to be SLi.

ant9985
07-03-07, 12:23
really ^^

glad i picked up on that in time...
hmm but that means the ab9 quadgt is also crossfire then :S

why is that? does intel not like nvidia?

ant9985
07-03-07, 12:54
what about this: http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Motherboards/Socket+775+%28Intel%29/+Asus+P5N32-E+SLi+Socket+775?productId=25917

mac124
07-03-07, 14:22
Thats nvidia 680 chipset so is sliable 8)

ant9985
07-03-07, 15:13
cool, will it fit the rest of my spec though?, its got 8 fan connects which is nice :D

Sean
07-03-07, 20:30
It's essentially the budget Striker - cracking board.

ant9985
08-03-07, 17:35
great, thnx