View Full Version : Complete N00b needs advice
charliereddog
01-12-06, 14:05
Hi all, first post here. I'm a complete novice when it comes to the inner components of a PC. In the past I've managed to fit first a CDR, and then a DVD drive and upgrade my RAM, but that's about it. At the moment, my current pc is:
AMD Athlon XP 2600+ 2.13Ghz
1.5Gb DDR PC3200 200mhz RAM
GeForce FX 5200 w 128mb DDR
Motherboard - MSI MS-6570 k7n2 Delta (L\\ILSR)
I've got two HDD's, a CDRW and a DVD-R as well as a floppy.
Now at the moment, my PC is doing pretty much what I want it to. It plays most games ok, Operation Flashpoint still being my main game, although it runs Brothers in Arms ok mostly on medium settings. However, I am looking at upgrading to be able to run Armed Assault, which seems to have extremely high end requirements.
I'm guessing I have two or possibly three routes,
1) Complete new system (but what to do with the old, and how to get all my software ported over etc
2) Upgrade a few bits here and there from new
3) Upgrade a few bits here and there from second hand.
My problem is that I don't have a scooby about what goes with what. While my pc was a custom build in the sense it was done in someone's garage, the only input I had was \"I want to play this, and I want to be able to do that\" etc. Am I going to be able to upgrade this in any meaningful way?
I've a budget of about £200 at the moment, but if it requires a new system, is it going to be possible to make any savings, or recoup any cash from my present system?
Sorry for the long post, don't want to end up not giving the right information. Your help is much appreciated.
Gavin
If you have the cash i recommend build yourself a Intel Conroe system.
Sell everything from your last system, but keep your HDD's, DVD-R and Floppy.
Move everything you want to keep from the main hard drive to the spare one.
Make a note of software and program's ect... where to find them..
Once the new computer arrives, build it, and install Windows on the main hard drive.
Insert the spare as a slave and you will have kept all your data.
Reinstall programs and games.
Jobs a Good'UN!!! 8)
charliereddog
01-12-06, 14:36
Thanks for the reply. As I said, I've a budget of about £200. How much cash am I likely to recoup from selling bits? (i'm guessing here you mean Ebay or the like? Is there a better place? Is my stuff even worth anything?)
Secondly, a conroe system is likely to be what £? My hunch is that it's going to be significantly more than my budget and any cash I can recoup.
charliereddog
01-12-06, 15:00
Would this http://www.aria.co.uk/ProductInfoComm.asp?ID=25036 be able to slot into my AGP slot on my mobo? Is it any good? Obviously I am thinking that it's going to be a significant improvement over my 5200? one of the criticisms of Armed Assault has been that it needs a lot of CPU power, and also a decent graphics card to make it work at all.
Well...
the cheapest Conroe
http://www.aria.co.uk/ProductsList.asp?Category=9&SubCat=CPU-AA7&Name=&Page=1&SortBy=1
is going to leave you with about 74 quid left for MainBoard, Memory, Graphics card and PSU :shock:
Read the post a little to fast.
You really need a new processor and graphics card tbh mate.
So maybe... a Sempron AM2, New Motherboard PCI-E Slot., PCI-E Graphics Card and a New Power Supply and a 1GB of ram with looking to upgrading that to 2GB when you can?
:wink:
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charliereddog
01-12-06, 15:49
Again, thanks for the replies.
I can't add any more cash to the budget than i've already done. As for the credit card, well I get interest free for a month anytime of the year, so your suggestions just plain silly :lol:
Unfortunately, we're not all graced with the bottomless pockets of the technology chasers. I've a mortgage to pay, a new front door to buy, a new central heating boiler and system.... the list goes on. £200 really IS the limit. If I can't get where I want, ie Armed Assault, then i will stay as I am. At the end of the day, I've got till february till its released but I can't realistically see any great increase in funding becoming available.
Can anyone comment on the compatibility of the graphics card I posted?
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charliereddog
01-12-06, 16:13
So, no need to jump down my throat eh?
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cause offence, hence the word silly and the smilie, rather than \"F off\". Anywhoo, moving on. Thanks for the more indepth answer. I see what you are getting at now with the credit card statement. Might be something to look into I guess.
If I'm going to be looking at a totally new system, I guess I'd definately need to sell my current pc, or parts of it. I'd obviously keep my two HDD's and DVD Drive. Is that all I would be able to retain? Again, my question remains, what sort of money would i expect to be recouping? Are we talking tens of pounds, or a hundred?
When it comes to speccing out a whole new system, i really don't know where to start. :(
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If your system can hold out for a bit longer mate i would look at upgrading just after the new year.
Try and save up another £100 or so and sell your system for around £100+ your looking at a better budget of around £400+ 8)
charliereddog
01-12-06, 17:21
So there's nothing worth keeping at all, not even my RAM and HDD's and DVD drive? I suppose I could buy another smaller HDD to put in?
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charliereddog
19-12-06, 15:59
right, OK, I've bitten the bullet and faced facts that I will need to get a new computer if I'm to play ArmA or indeed any new game. Having said this, I've never built a pc, so I've picked out the following as an initial benchmark. Unfortunately it comes to £656 without anything I've forgotten/omitted which is about £200 more than I can reasonably justify.
Processor - C2D E6400 Retail (saves me £55)OR
E6600 Retail. £199.62
MoBo - Asrock Conroexfire-eSATA2 775 - £56.36
GFx - Gainward Bliss 7900GS 512mb PCI-E - £164.44
HD - 200GB Seagate Barracuda 10 SATA2 £52.82
RAM - Arianet High Perf 1GB DDR2 667 - £76.32
Case - Aspire X-Plorer Black Neon Midi - £52.88
PSU - Xilence ATX2.0 480w PSU - £53.99
As said, this is way over my budget so 3 questions,
1) How can I bring the cost down sufficiently but retain the performance
2) Are the components above all I would need, anything missing (I've omitted floppy and DVD which I have in current system. I would look at buying new for the pennies they are but I can't afford the current total :D )
3) Are the above components compatible. Have I made any cockups?
Oh, and I'll also be needing to get an O/S for it, as my current rig is, shall we say, not going to be earning any Bill Gates Loyalty bonus's
Cheers.
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charliereddog
19-12-06, 17:16
How does the AMD stack up against the Intel? i thought the consensus was that the intel were the better chips and better value?
Good work so far, its now down to £525ish. Ideally though, I could do to pare it down even further, but I can't see how unless I downgrade the GFX card which is kind of the main point of this new system.
[Removed at the request of the author]
Basic conroe needent cost more though the cheap conroe mobos will probably lack a few features of a similarly priced am2 setup. Chap at work was thinking of going am2 till i suggested conroe he priced it up andit only worked out around £50 more for a \"cheap\" conroe setup maybe £300.
charliereddog
19-12-06, 19:49
Oh, I wasn't faulting your money saving, more trying to get my head round what is extremely confusing to me.
I'm suffering in that the budget really is about £400, and when you consider that the gfx takes almost half of that, and is the whole point of the new rig, it kind of doesn't make sense to cut corners elsewhere. I guess I'd better start selling my body.
My original suggestions were ok, nothing out of place? I'll work on saving that cash up and see what it buys me when we get there.
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charliereddog
20-12-06, 11:21
Good, I'm glad I hadn't picked anything too daft. I'll be saving up cash to do the new build, but in the meantime I'm wondering about looking into overclocking, and so forth so I learn a little about that side of things. What sort of benifits might I see from doing this with my current cpu?
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charliereddog
20-12-06, 12:57
Sorry, I meant overclocking my AMD 2600+, not the one I can't afford :D
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charliereddog
25-01-07, 13:39
Well, I think I may have sold my old system for £200 which gives me a well thought out budget of £600.
I won't be buying till mid feb, but I'd like to have an idea of what I'm going for. Can anyone suggest some specs?
I will need to get OEM XP and it will need to be built by aria since I haven't the time or inclination at the moment to try building from scratch.
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I have to agree. I think you'd be surprised at how easy it is to build your own machine. Most things will only fit in the hole they are meant to go in, and for the bits that could fit in 2 places, instructions are generally very good.
:)
charliereddog
25-01-07, 14:21
You see this is where I kind of look a little dumb. To me, £600 should buy me a flaming good pc, not a \"reasonably specced\" one.
Yes, I could do it myself, I just don't necessarily want to. If it means the difference between the pc I want, and the pc I can afford, then obviously I'll have to rethink. Why not work on the assumption that £600 is the budget, and I'll figure out how much building the thing means to me? :D
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£600 eh? Does that have to include everything? Monitor, case, speakers?
charliereddog
25-01-07, 14:45
it needs to include the *computer*. I've got a TFT, speakers etc. I'm just looking at a new box.
Yay, something for me to do :)
charliereddog
25-01-07, 14:59
Good work that man! I await your results with anticipation.
Only problem is the new Duo CPU's are only compatible for 975X Intel boards, of which Aria have very few, and they're all expensive!
Do you not want to re-use your hard drives/optical drives?
Right
I've had a play
Processor and Mobo
Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 Retail 2x 1.86 2Mb 1066 MHz LGA775 BX805576300 £106.95
Abit IB9 Socket 775 CORE 2 DUO READY / PCIE x16 / SATA(II) RAID / 7.1 HD AUDIO / Gb LAN / ATX MOTHERBOARD £64.95
Gives you a decent branded mobo at a good price with plenty of oomph for future bolt on upgrades.
Memory & Graphics
Arianet High Perf. 1GB DDR2 667 1GB DDR2 667 SDRAM PC2 5300 Life time warranty £64.95
* out of stock atm
Inno3D GeForce 7900GS 256MB PCI-E TV Out, Dual DVI Mfr# I-7900GS- G5G3C £115.95
I'm currently running a 7600GT which I am upgrading from - with your budget I think this is the best available for your money. I will say that my 7600gt runs Company of Heroes fine which is probably as intensive a game as you'll get - the 7900gs should do you find until next year when DX10 arrives - but by then you're looking at upgrading your graphics card only - not your whole system.
Case and Drives
Liteon-Benq 16x DL DVD-RW+RAM Blk £15.95
Aria Gamer DarkStar 500w Case CAS-497 - FC-SH09A BK/SV £39.95
3½\" Black Floppy Drive £3.65 £3.65
160GB Maxtor DMax+10 SATA2 8MB SATA-2 300Gb/s RoHS 6V160E0 Replaces 6B160M0 6L160M0 £32.95
Gives you DVD +RW Floppy 160gb HD and a case with a 500w PSU. IF you upgrade Graphics - you may need to upgrade psu - but again those aren't massively expensive nowadays unless you buy one of the super duper jobbies.
OS
Microsoft XP Home OEM + Vista Upgrade Voucher* (Release date 30th Jan 2007) £47.50
*currently out of stock
Subtotal :
VAT : £492.80
£86.25 Total : £579.05 inc VAT
There's a few items on there that are out of stock (sorry couldn't avoid it). If you have to have it you're looking at coming in over budget (it's £30-40) difference to avoid the oos items
Bear in mind Aria building this will take you over budget - I think they charge £45 for building and delivery will be around £10 - so either way you're going to be pushing £630 delivered to your door.
Plus points.
1. This will be a massive upgrade to what you're currently running and it will run modern games reasonably well with nice eye candy
2. This can be easily turned from £600 medium gaming pc to Super Duper Flying machine in chunks should you wish (+1gb memory for £70 incl Vat. 400gb HD for around £80 @+vat even the DX10 cards are only £300 incl vat now)
3. It will look sexy. The aria case has good reviews so these bits you have that will run warm (graphics in particular) will be cool and look damn fine. Looks are important imo!
4. Your upgrade path is now fairly cheap.
Unfortunately I'm in the same boat as you, luckily I've got a bit more cash to spend and at the end of the month I'm replacing my system (amd64 3500, 1gb ram, 7600gt, 160gb hd) with a bit of a monster! We're both in the same boat. We're on agb boards which are dead now. The AMD chipset is suffering next to the intel chipset once more and we're buying just before the release of vista which will see an influx of new DX10 cards and PCI-E2. But you have to buy sooner or later, and I'm thinking that if you buy now you're going to be looking at a good 2 year lifespan before you might want to switch graphics cards for a dx10 capable one which by then should cost £100 rather than £300.
The other thing you could do is this....
https://www.aria.co.uk/productinfocomm.asp?ID=20432&SpecialStatus=1 and stick in the 7900gs. yes it's not core duo so you'll have to replace it sooner or later - but that gives you a new pc that will run what you want to run for around £500. My advice is go with the custom build - it WILL serve you better long term - but if you're looking to do this as cheaply as possible - I'd be tempted to consider the dell...
'Squish
charliereddog
25-01-07, 16:08
OKay, where to start. Thanks is probably a good place :D
Barley, I'm not looking to keep my drives as if I sell, (which is the only way I can make the upgrade, they have to go with it, and as discussed a page or so back, they're IDE, rather than SATA).
As regards GFX, ArmA which is the game I'm buying this pc to run, is a monster, and seems to want 512mb vram. Having said that, I'm not seeing much option, and I take it should I want to (ie prices have come down lots!,) I could put say a 8800 in without any problems apart from the psu you identify?
Am I likely to notice coming down from 1.5gb ram, to 1gb?
Would that mobo take a more powerful c2d processor?
This is now looking to be much more of a reality project.
Oh, what about cables, paste and such. Do I need to factor anything else than is on this list into the price? Fans as well?
Cheers,
Gavin
I'm still working on it at the moment, but I would not consider a generic 500w PSU as an option to be honest, you want the PC to be future proofed, and if you want to overclock the PC (which you will!) then you need a quality PSU.
The case I'm looking at comes with fans, and new motherboards come with the cables you'll need.
Coming down from 1.5GB to 1Gb you probably will notice a little difference. Some games might stop to page more often, but it's the price that has to be paid for the rest of the system to be good. you can easily add another 1GB stick in when you have the cash.
Lastly, you CAN'T buy XP Home as it has no support for dual core CPU's.
Aye - Barley may well be right regarding the psu - I was trying to save cash there.
From what I can see ArmA is going to be brutal. I'd imagine you might end up in a swings and roundabouts situation here. You could find that you'll get away with 1gb of very good overclockable RAM but that might cost as much if not more than 2gb of standard RAM.
The motherboard I specced would definitely take higher ECD processors so you could always upgrade there easily enough.
It's really a case of how far you want to push your budget - I suspect adding in a very good 600w PSU would be a good idea but again - all these items are going to add up. It might be better to splurge in one big go than splurge and then have a dribble of cash going into patching up or adding in what you want.
Either way - I'm sure you'll see plenty of options and opinions on where you want to go.
**edit - EEK xp home doesn't suport core duo? That shags my plan of running xp on my new pc - what do I need - XP64? I hadn't checked tbh - just assumed.
'Squish
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[quote:17af87c7e9=\"Isquish\"]
**edit - EEK xp home doesn't suport core duo? That shags my plan of running xp on my new pc - what do I need - XP64? I hadn't checked tbh - just assumed.
'Squish[/quote:17af87c7e9]
If you want a dual core bad boy system you should get yourself at least XP Professional, or a fairly good version of Vista. But both are costly :?
The wonders of the Campus Agreement!
I use Xp Professional anyway (college employees can run any MS software at home whilst they're employed by the college under the campus agreement) so I'd stick that on
I'm glad I found that out about the new processors tho.
Eventually I'll go vista on my new pc but not until it's had sp1 to remove all the unforseen 'features' It looks damn sexy tho - very impressed with the early copies we have.
'Squish
Ok, I've been really bored today being off work with nothing to do, so this is what I've come up with :)
http://www.onlybarley.co.uk/pictures/sysbuild.jpg
CPU and Mobo
I've pretty much gone with what Isquish mentioned. The CPU is great, and the mobo is a named brand, so you're getting your money's worth. It has plenty of USB on it, as well as built in sound and a network port. The board can also take up to 4GB of RAM if you like.
You could easily add a better C2D processor in the future if you want, but that E6300 will overclock nicely, so it's going to last well.
Ram
I would consider the 1GB of RAM as a stop gap until you can get another stick. the system will run ok and the games will be reasonable, but you should think about getting an extra stick as soon as your funds allow it. That'll really help keep your games smooth. I picked the DDR2 800 RAM to match the CPU and motherboard, will help you get better overclocks than using 667 RAM which would restrict the system.
Case and PSU
I chose the Coolermaster Centurion case because I know for a fact that it's an excellent case. It looks great and has good airflow. Custom PC magazine always bang on about it being a good cheap case, and have used it themselves in the past when putting together budget computers.
The PSU is also very good. If you check out a few reviews you'll see it looks good, and works well. It'll easily power a C2D system with two graphics card is SLI mode if you liked, but the mobo I listed only has 1 PCI-E slot. So instead it should handle a 8800GTX alright too.
Note: I hear 8800GTX's need TWO PCI-E express power cables to function, luckily the Hiper PSU has two.
Graphics
The 7950GT is a great card, and Gainward are also a quality manufacturer. It's a gold sample card so it also comes pre-overclocked to be faster than a normal 7950 (580Mhz as opposed to 550Mhz), but there's nothing to stop you trying to push it a bit further too ;)
This card has 256MB not 512MB, but I read the spec's for Armed Assault and it should be more than enough to run fine. Plus if you're thinking of a 8800GTX in the future then it's even less of a problem.
The rest
The other stuff, floppy drive, DVD writer, hard drive, are things I threw in because I know you needed them. The drives should all work fine, and I'd have thought 160GB would be enough space for you? If not again you can easily add another drive later on. The hard drive is also SATA, which is the norm these days.
The CPU is retail so should come with paste and a HSF, and the motherboard will come with IDE and SATA cables.
Operating system
For your budget I really don't think you can get an OS that's going to be any good. XP Home doesn't support dual processors, so you'd have to get Vista or XP Pro, which all cost a lot of money.
Overall the system goes £9 over budget, but it isn't a lot so I hope you'll let me off ;)
I forgot to mention, that's also a better system that mine ;)
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charliereddog
25-01-07, 18:02
Too true. Still, I've not paid for it yet!!!
I am going to need an OS though, as I, erm, well, kind of, well, erm, cough hooky cough...
Part of my reluctance to go for a new system at this very second, is that I don't know what ArmA needs. Yes, I've read the recommended and minimum reqs. I've also spent far too much of works time reading the BIS forums and seeing how people with 8800GTX and mahoosive systems can't play the bloody thing. Until its ironed out, i guess its a bit like vista. Looks nice, but comes with nasty side effects.
The system that you've picked out looks good, both of you. I guess the point about the PSU is worth while, and one big splurge rather than having to replace relatively new components in quick succession.
Am I likely to need a better fan than the one which comes with the CPU? I'm not likely to overclock tbh, even though I probably should from what people say. I'm too much of a coward for that sort of malarkey. :lol:
[quote:4f8bc110d4=\"Barley\"]
Lastly, you CAN'T buy XP Home as it has no support for dual core CPU's.[/quote:4f8bc110d4]
Dude where did you hear that load of poo from??
All my pcs are dual core and ALL are running XP home
[quote:078a7de927=\"mac124\"][quote:078a7de927=\"Barley\"]
Lastly, you CAN'T buy XP Home as it has no support for dual core CPU's.[/quote:078a7de927]
Dude where did you hear that load of poo from??
All my pcs are dual core and ALL are running XP home[/quote:078a7de927]
I apologise, what I read was misleading. XP Home DOES support dual core processors, but it won't support dual CPU's :)
[quote:d1deea1482=\"Barley\"][quote:d1deea1482=\"mac124\"][quote:d1deea1482=\"Barley\"]
Lastly, you CAN'T buy XP Home as it has no support for dual core CPU's.[/quote:d1deea1482]
Dude where did you hear that load of poo from??
All my pcs are dual core and ALL are running XP home[/quote:d1deea1482]
I apologise, what I read was misleading. XP Home DOES support dual core processors, but it won't support dual CPU's :)[/quote:d1deea1482]
Ah right subtle but important difference :wink:
[quote:b978a5670e=\"mac124\"][quote:b978a5670e=\"Barley\"][quote:b978a5670e=\"mac124\"][quote:b978a5670e=\"Barley\"]
Lastly, you CAN'T buy XP Home as it has no support for dual core CPU's.[/quote:b978a5670e]
Dude where did you hear that load of poo from??
All my pcs are dual core and ALL are running XP home[/quote:b978a5670e]
I apologise, what I read was misleading. XP Home DOES support dual core processors, but it won't support dual CPU's :)[/quote:b978a5670e]
Ah right subtle but important difference :wink:[/quote:b978a5670e]
I know my place :(
http://www.ameshistoricalsociety.org/images/hoggatt6.jpg
I'm typing this from XP Home on an e6400 at the moment ;)
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[quote:7158ea8dee=\"PrivatePyle@Work\"][quote:7158ea8dee=\"Aaron\"]I'm typing this from XP Home on an e6400 at the moment ;)[/quote:7158ea8dee]
On dial-up :wink: :wink:[/quote:7158ea8dee]
hahah! :lol: yeah yeah
Ordered some broadband goodness yesterday tho. finally! So i'll be spending more time on here!
[quote:70841b9b59=\"Aaron\"][quote:70841b9b59=\"PrivatePyle@Work\"][quote:70841b9b59=\"Aaron\"]I'm typing this from XP Home on an e6400 at the moment ;)[/quote:70841b9b59]
On dial-up :wink: :wink:[/quote:70841b9b59]
hahah! :lol: yeah yeah
Ordered some broadband goodness yesterday tho. finally! So i'll be spending more time on here![/quote:70841b9b59]
Which broadband?
I went with Eclipse in the end. 1month contract. Theyve had a few problems recently, but they are based 15mins down the road from me, so if I get any problems, I can go down there and hunt the manager down ;) The reviews that people are giving who havent had any problems seem to be favourable. The problems come when you have to contact customer support at the moment. But hopefully that wont be an issue!
I'll let you know how it turns out.
Which option have you gone with?
The £14.99 package with 2GB bandwidth limit, or £18.99 package with 10GB limit? Or have you been fancy and gone higher? :)
Or there's their Evolution package, but I don't like the idea of higher paying users getting priority over the lower paying users.
well, to start with we're trying the evolution package and seeing how it turns out. If it was a 12month contract, we probably wouldnt have, but as its only a one month, and you can change packages on a monthly basis, we're going to give them all a try and see what they're like..
If you're downloading alot - evolution is the right package for you (imo)
especially considering the fair usage policy. As soon as I am out of 12 months with Plus - I'm getting my mac code and moving to eclipse on the £24.99 pm evolution tariff. 40gb a month at peak times and unlimited out of peak which is very nice
'Squish
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