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Just came across these benchies and well, I find them non conclusive :p
The Xfired 4770s can outperform a GTX285, then other times it gets smoked. Basically thought I should see what you guys think :) (no bias opinions please) :D
http://www.tweakpc.de/hardware/tests/grafikkarten/ati_radeon_hd_4770_x2_x3_x4_dual_tri_quad_crossfir e/s05.php?benchmark=cw&lang=
Check all the benchmarks :) they're real nice as they're x4 AA and x16 AF @ 1680x1050 :)
(I've not looked at higher res benchies as they're don't apply to me) :)
wonderlust
19-07-09, 19:46
Well the bench you linked to but at 1920x1200 (about the same amount of pixels as my 2048x1152) 4 (yes 4) 4770s perform about the same as a single GTX260
Nope nope you missed the point :p
We're looking at x2 4770s @ 1680x1050 :)
wonderlust
19-07-09, 19:54
You maybe...
My screen is 2048x1152 (2.36MP) so I use 1920x1200 (2.30MP) as the nearest to my screen. At these resolutions the 4770 (depending on the game) performs badly (and very well in others).
huh what the, never mind please stop telling me about your screen ;)
We have had this discussion with those exact cards before somewhere on here.
The problem with multiple cards is unless the driver supporst the game you will be running on a single card.
With the 4770 it has quite a narrow memory bandwidth so, i am led to believe, at higher res, maybe higher than you use, it could struggle when you turn the eye candy up, especially as it only uses the memory from one card.
You pays your money you makes your chioce, i for one prefer to use a single card solution wherever possible as it ALWAYS works to the best of its ability.
I would buy a 4850x2 for £140 honestly. Single card.
I can only find a 4850x2 for £188.99 :S
wonderlust
19-07-09, 21:09
huh what the, never mind please stop telling me about your screen ;)
The reason I mention my screen is that the higher the resolution the more bandwidth is required an area that the 4770 seems (from the benchmarks you provided) to suffer from.
not everybody has a screen that only does 1650x1080 ;)
Then again not everybody had a PC that can handle CFX, but mine can, and I have a res of 1680x1050...see what I was getting at? I'm not gonna run it at a higher res cause I can't. :D
wonderlust
19-07-09, 21:33
Well xfire is only good if it works correctly in the games you play if not then a single card is better.
I don't game much but if i want to my GTX seems to be working nicely for me (and the games I play) I don't play FPS as I get motion sick.
I've suddenly liking the look of a 4850x2 :)
Considering a gtx 260 can be had for £99, I think this link shows what a monster of a card it is, with loads of raw bandwidth at taxing settings.
change the game to farcry to for example with res to 2560x1600 and a 4AA x6AF.
http://www.tweakpc.de/hardware/tests/grafikkarten/ati_radeon_hd_4770_x2_x3_x4_dual_tri_quad_crossfir e/s05.php?benchmark=cw&lang=
A GTX 260 at monster reso's with full AA/AF can clearly hold its own. 31fps vs 10 fps TEN FPS! on the 4770x2. (if you have a core 216 overclocked 260 then more in line with the 280 at 35 fps)
Go through the entire list and at big ressies and the 2 4770's are no where to be seen!!
Now heres the interesting bit at 1920x1200 i'll admit the 2x4700's in some cases give you a FEW more FPS over the gtx 260, but you've paid more in the first place for the 4770 combo (£40-£50?)
How can you justify £40-£50 more outlay for a few fps? (not in all cases either) - knowing at the back of your mind as soon as things get gnarly and big ressies come into play of complex AA/AF the cards might as well be put in the bin!
The card only pulling 10 fps when a £50 cheaper card pulls 30 fps illustrates this cards lack of raw horsepower. As games get more complex with heavier textures and more detailed AA/AF even at lower res's i've got no faith the 2x 4770's would cope well.
ps. Jerry's final thought of the day. It started off with Will claiming the 2x 4770's were the be all and end all GFX card solution whipping everything in its path. I think its ended with the realisation for Will that in some very narrow circumstances it may be a good choice, but for a £50 saving the GTX 260 still remains the bang for buck king.
Considering a gtx 260 can be had for £99, I think this link shows what a monster of a card it is, with loads of raw bandwidth at taxing settings.
change the game to farcry to for example with res to 2560x1600 and a 4AA x6AF.
http://www.tweakpc.de/hardware/tests/grafikkarten/ati_radeon_hd_4770_x2_x3_x4_dual_tri_quad_crossfir e/s05.php?benchmark=cw&lang=
A GTX 260 at monster reso's with full AA/AF can clearly hold its own. 31fps vs 10 fps TEN FPS! on the 4770x2. (if you have a core 216 overclocked 260 then more in line with the 280 at 35 fps)
Go through the entire list and at big ressies and the 2 4770's are no where to be seen!!
Now heres the interesting bit at 1920x1200 i'll admit the 2x4700's in some cases give you a FEW more FPS over the gtx 260, but you've paid more in the first place for the 4770 combo (£40-£50?)
How can you justify £40-£50 more outlay for a few fps? (not in all cases either) - knowing at the back of your mind as soon as things get gnarly and big ressies come into play of complex AA/AF the cards might as well be put in the bin!
The card only pulling 10 fps when a £50 cheaper card pulls 30 fps illustrates this cards lack of raw horsepower. As games get more complex with heavier textures and more detailed AA/AF even at lower res's i've got no faith the 2x 4770's would cope well.
ps. Jerry's final thought of the day. It started off with Will claiming the 2x 4770's were the be all and end all GFX card solution whipping everything in its path. I think its ended with the realisation for Will that in some very narrow circumstances it may be a good choice, but for a £50 saving the GTX 260 still remains the bang for buck king.
Even now as I try to steer away from the dual 4770s I actually can't get away!
I don't play at such a high res of 2560x1600 (and that applies to 95% of the country) and all cards give a "slide show" at that res.
There just are too many occasions where the 4770s kick everything and anythings ***, which doesn't even take into account the overclocking headroom or the fact they consume 160W (in total). Its just impossible to get away from they for £150!
The reviews constantly compare it against a 4890, and well see for your self, its just depressing for me :(
http://en.expreview.com/img/2009/04/28/4770cf_5.jpg
http://www.legionhardware.com/Bench/ATI_Radeon_HD_4770_Crossfire_Performance/Crysis_01.png
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-4770-crossfire,2288.html
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/966/1/
http://www.elite*******s.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=714&Itemid=27&limit=1&limitstart=1
those FPS's are all well above the 60 fps I class as needed for gaming. But i'd take the 4890 ANYDAY over the 4770's.
It doesn't matter was res most the country play at as games get more complex and they will the x2 4770's will fall behind very quickly where the 4890 will still shine.
The 4770s have umm
more shaders, same bus width, same memory, and can OC higher, produce less heat, and use less power. I NEED BENCHIES!
At x8 AA x16 AF and 1920x1200 the 4980 still looses out :\
I agree they look good, and I dont think they would be a BAD buy in anyone's book, especially for the money.
But the thing is, you're still using a crossfire/SLI setup. Which, as has been pointed out before: isn't supported in all games; can cause huge problems setting it up; and as coiler said, won't scale as well as a 4890 as games get more complex. Now, they keep up, but give it a couple of years and if things stay as they are, the single card solutions will be playing the latest games better than the crossfire/sli setups. You only have to look at people trying to do it in the past to see people having some, but limited success with dual card setups. Such as trying to SLI 2x8600s instead of buying an 8800 etc etc.
I think there is some mileage in dual card setups, but only as a last resort. I'm another vote for a single card solution.
The 4770s scale up especially well, thats why they're so brilliant, I just have too many un-answered questions and no way to answer them! Its G A Y!
I'm another vote for a single card solution.
ESPECIALLY if buying both at the same time, spend the money on a single card, then think about adding another at a later date, if you want to.
ESPECIALLY if buying both at the same time, spend the money on a single card, then think about adding another at a later date, if you want to.
I was planning on doing that, but I didn't want to buy one then have to sell it if I didn't want to go for a xfire setup.
Ok I have an idea.
My budget for a new GPU(s) is £150, what is the best card(s) I can get and I have x4 xfire capabilities :)
I think you should just buy a single card.. :D :lol:
At the end of the day, regardless of performance, if you got something like a 4890 and then wanted a crossfire setup, you can add another card. If you buy 2x4770's and decide you need more performance, that option is taken away you have no option other than to rebuy the lot..
I think you should just buy a single card.. :D :lol:
At the end of the day, regardless of performance, if you got something like a 4890 and then wanted a crossfire setup, you can add another card. If you buy 2x4770's and decide you need more performance, that option is taken away you have no option other than to rebuy the lot..
Its not that I want a xfire setup I just want the best card for the money. I think the 1GB memory doesn't matter so much as I'm only running at 1680x1050.
The cards are the same price, but if I buy one 4770, then I can buy another later one where as a 4890 is one big investment :\
First things first take what a review says with a little pinch of salt, as you can see the results in this review are wildly different for Hawx.
http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/966/FarCry2.jpg
One game that doesn't like them when eye candy is turned up and single cards do much better.
http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/966/cod.jpg
This one shows that if the game isn't supported you are basically running 1 card, may or maynot be fixed at some point, dependant on the game.
http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/966/hawx.jpg
Scale well eh? Not in this game, clearly gets highest fps at low res, turn it up and they struggle.
This "discussion" in one form or another will rage on, and on, and on.........
At the end of the day its entirely up to you but i think buying 2 "mid range" cards in one hit is a bit of a false economy buy one higher end card now and in 12 months add a second (at a knock down price) if you wish to, as the crossfired cheaper cards will probably need replacing by then anyway and will be worth next to nothing on the second hand market.
Right then it comes down to what cards can I afford with my budget...
1GB 4870
1GB 4890
x2 512mb 4770s
896mb GTX275
896mb GTX260 core 216
1GB 4850x2
I don't see no clear winner in there at all!
Just remember that 4770s aren't normal "mid range" cards, they scale up really well and some times give a GTX285 a run for its money...makes it soo hard to decide
Buy a gun and a few bullets, then you could put us or yourself out of misery. :)
oh......HD4890.
The same one as Nifty got. Vapor ~X~
A 4890 better than a GTX275?
That vapour X is £160
Shop around you can get a XFX4890 for under £150, then add another should the need arise when funds allow.
4890 nifty edition+
if and when ANY game drops below 60fps add another 4890 in a couple of years.
Sleep at night in the knowledge you can run any res, any game and not have any 10 FPS shockers out there :)
wonderlust
21-07-09, 09:52
Does this help?
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-graphics-card,2362.html
PeterStoba
21-07-09, 11:47
I was planning on doing that, but I didn't want to buy one then have to sell it if I didn't want to go for a xfire setup.
Ok I have an idea.
My budget for a new GPU(s) is £150, what is the best card(s) I can get and I have x4 xfire capabilities :)
4890 without a doubt :)
For all the reasons above, it makes sense.
4890 :thumbsup:
cos I don't want you in my gtx275 club :P:lol:
4890 :thumbsup:
cos I don't want you in my gtx275 club :P:lol:
Ooh that reminds me! I need to leave the GTX260 club and be the founder member of the HD4890 club :thumbsup:
4890 is a better option, may lose in some, but at a later date when their worth like £50, you can add another and still have amazing graphics.
4890 is a better option, may lose in some, but at a later date when their worth like £50, you can add another and still have amazing graphics.
It's just a matter of if you can bear to not upgrade until such a time in the future as a second card costs £50. You would have to spend at least some of that time unable to max out settings.
I'm still running an 8800GT, and its still going well! Most thing I play still run at max settings too.. And you can pick them up for about £50 now...
I'm still running an 8800GT, and its still going well! Most thing I play still run at max settings too.. And you can pick them up for about £50 now...
Yeah I think the fact that you can run most things on a 2 generation old chip just shows how games aren't getting very demanding. I blame consoles!
I'm agreeing with you a lot today.. :lol: :lol:
Don't kill me for posting this but ummm
1GB 4890? 896mb GTX 275? 1GB 4850x2?
They're all the same price, but I can't choose...check the benchmarks :)
The 4850 x2 is abit of a beast!
http://techreport.com/articles.x/16681/1
4890 because when 4890's are cheaper you will get xfire 4890's...
Same applies to the 4850 x2? Then I could run it in Quad Xfire lol
Thats 3200 shaders (in the 4850 x2) vs 1600 in the xfired 4890s :\
Yeah but quad xfire doesn't scale as well as dual, which is what a 4850X2 is anyway.
The "X2" cards (4850x2) don't seem to have scaling problems...non that I've seen anyway...anybody else seen any??
PeterStoba
23-07-09, 20:11
1GB 4850x2 leaves alot to desire. The 2GB model is the only one that's worth it
The 1GB 4850x2 is enough for 1680x1050 and below :)
You only need more at higher res :)
UH OH............
9500gt 1gb version SLI'd
*opens can of worms*
UH OH............
9500gt 1gb version SLI'd
*opens can of worms*
I think it is fair to say...you are !!!OBSESSED!!! :mrgreen::chairfall:
What does a high end card (higher than your 2608)) such as a 4850x2 have to do with a 9500gt Sli'd :p
I think it is fair to say...you are !!!OBSESSED!!! :mrgreen::chairfall:
:lol: you are hardly in a position to call anyone obsessed! :lol: :lol: ;)
ok - here we go: Basic rule. Go for the fastest single card option you can afford. End of story. x2s such as the 4850x2 don't count because they are essentially two 4850s glued together and using one slot, so for all intents and purposes, they are SLI's or crossfired depending on brand.
If you use that rule, it should cut down many of your dilemmas you are having.
4890 end of story. :thumbsup:
I thought he said he already ordered the same one as Nifty?
I thought he said he already ordered the same one as Nifty?
He will probably go for the Asus 4890 if he gets one because of the voltage tweak.
Personally I don't want to overclock as I just got my first leccy bill in my new house, woah... :|
Undervolting 4tw!
I'm going for the XFX XXX 1GB 4890 :) from a different place as its £148.90 (same price as a 1GB 4850 x2 lol)
There are various 3rd party programs that enable volt modding without it being manufactered by ASUS.
LOL, which account do you want to keep?
I'm going for the XFX XXX 1GB 4890 :) from a different place as its £148.90 (same price as a 1GB 4850 x2 lol)
There are various 3rd party programs that enable volt modding without it being manufactered by ASUS.
Yeah and it's just the Sapphire one with the special choke that will need someone to write a program.
On the topic of graphics cards...I've strapped a 80mm case fan to my 8400 and well the core happily runs at 850MHz :p its pretty nice!
http://i.neoseeker.com/neo_image/162303/article/asus_m3a79-t_deluxe/bios0015.jpg
In a review it says "The Hypertransport Configuration is very useful when overclocking" I have no idea how this is useful...any help?
The screen shot shows the same settings as mine :)
Edit: I've down cored the CPU to 1 core...and core 1 seems fine at 3.4GHz :) I'll use the process of elimination to find the weak core as I suspect there will be a weak core.
Running at 3.6GHz on 1 core...shame all 3 cores can't do this :S
Edit: Are GTX295 rubbish then? As they won't be fully utilised in games as they're a dual core GPU?
busman3000
27-07-09, 11:07
Will you are seriously unlucky, If I were you i'd just RMA it saying its not working for you. They will probably send you a new one before testing it hehe :D
Will you are seriously unlucky, If I were you i'd just RMA it saying its not working for you. They will probably send you a new one before testing it hehe :D
They won't, they will test it as working and whack a % testing fee on there and then you'd have to pay to have it sent back to you! :lol:
They won't, they will test it as working and whack a % testing fee on there and then you'd have to pay to have it sent back to you! :lol:
+1...
They told me my StealthXStream was faulty when I'm not too sure it was now.
Aria have just said I can't send it back to them as the warrenty is directly with AMD, so I'll contact AMD :)
Edit: I think its fair to say AMD have the WORST customer support ever :p it's near impossible to contact them!
Edit 2: I'm thinking maybe temperatures are an issue, what do people say about investing £35 in a TRUE?
wonderlust
27-07-09, 12:30
Sounds like a possible memory fault!
it normally keeps testing until you stop it
Prrfff you spend all this money on computer parts, and they're faulty parts :S
I thought it was fine on prime at 2.8ghz
wonderlust
27-07-09, 12:45
Prrfff you spend all this money on computer parts, and they're faulty parts :S
I suppose it could be your install proceedures? Did you follow any Anti static precautions?
I suppose it could be your install proceedures? Did you follow any Anti static precautions?
His PC is fine, he's just upset it doesn't OC to a million ghz.
I suppose it could be your install proceedures? Did you follow any Anti static precautions?
Well installed the power supply first, so the unpainted parts of the case will de-statirise me (yes I invented a new word) so basically in a word YES I did :)
His PC is fine, he's just upset it doesn't OC to a million ghz.
No I just won't OC to 3.3Ghz :p
wonderlust
27-07-09, 12:56
Lol like my Q6600 won't clock to 3.6Ghz (9x400) but will do 8x449!
sometimes you have to lower the multi and increase the FSB further!
Edit 2: I'm thinking maybe temperatures are an issue, what do people say about investing £35 in a TRUE?
why bother when a freezer 7 pro for a £10 does the job?
I don't think you'd get £25 worth of additional cooling performance out of a true
why bother when a freezer 7 pro for a £10 does the job?
I don't think you'd get £25 worth of additional cooling performance out of a true
And if you do have a low-binned chip then you just wasted your money on fancy cooling. A freezer 7 will be better than a stock cooler and should allow you to push your chip higher.
Failing that you just got a not so great chip, deal with it.
Ok I'll by one of them...this problem just could be because my chip needs higher voltages to get to 3.4GHz and when I increase the voltage enough then the temps get too high say at 1.4V
I can't believe the chip will suddenly stop at a certain frequency no matter what voltage you use...I would think you could hit 3.4GHz on 1.5V no chip could be that poor?
wonderlust
27-07-09, 13:38
Have you tried dropping the multi and increasing the HT speed to get the same speed?
Might be your motherboard has a frequency hole.
Ok I'll by one of them...this problem just could be because my chip needs higher voltages to get to 3.4GHz and when I increase the voltage enough then the temps get too high say at 1.4V
I can't believe the chip will suddenly stop at a certain frequency no matter what voltage you use...I would think you could hit 3.4GHz on 1.5V no chip could be that poor?
Will the question is are you oc'ing it to actually achieve something? like more fps in games for example? or is it simply to extend your E-peen?
if its the e-peen then i'd say forget it you got a bad apple
if its the fps i'd say WHY HAVN'T YOU BOUGHT THE 4890 YET!
busman3000
27-07-09, 13:57
This is like racing a Bugatti Veyron vs a fighter jet, bugatti has better acceleration and is ahead until XXX meters, which is where they end the race.
the 4770 only win up to a certain point (that point is low i might add).
I've not bought the 4890 yet because I'm going on holiday so Mr Postman will have to look after it for a few weeks lol
Overclocking wise, I just want to know why my CPU sucks :lol: I'll still invest in a new AC 64 Pro though :)
I've not bought the 4890 yet because I'm going on holiday so Mr Postman will have to look after it for a few weeks lol
Overclocking wise, I just want to know why my CPU sucks :lol:
Its AMD. :mrgreen::lol:
Its AMD. :mrgreen::lol:
:popcorn:
Its AMD. :mrgreen::lol:
Intel was right then I guess :\
PeterStoba
27-07-09, 16:45
They told me my StealthXStream was faulty when I'm not too sure it was now.
Aria have just said I can't send it back to them as the warrenty is directly with AMD, so I'll contact AMD :)
Edit: I think its fair to say AMD have the WORST customer support ever :p it's near impossible to contact them!
Edit 2: I'm thinking maybe temperatures are an issue, what do people say about investing £35 in a TRUE?
Oh FFS, what is contacting AMD going to do? They certainly won't RMA it because it doesn't overclock to 3.3GHz at all. Overclocking is not meant to happen, in 99% of occasions it voids your warranty. More volts doesn't mean it will work, you've hit a limit, end of.
Dude! I so just got told! :cry::mrgreen:
Oh FFS, what is contacting AMD going to do? They certainly won't RMA it because it doesn't overclock to 3.3GHz at all. Overclocking is not meant to happen, in 99% of occasions it voids your warranty. More volts doesn't mean it will work, you've hit a limit, end of.
You could be more ****ing understanding you ****ing piece of **** sucking *** ****ing mother *** licking man ****ing douche **** smelling piece of ****ing **** hole! :)
My 955 hits the wall around 3.8ghz, such is life, no amount of volts will get it stable. I can boot into windows at 4ghz but it falls over with the slightest sniff of prime.
Ummm not quiet the same problem there, obviously water cooling would allow it to go past 4GHz :p
wait why did you buy a 955? Why not just get a 940? £25 cheaper and you would get the same clock speed.
PeterStoba
27-07-09, 17:25
You could be more ****ing understanding you ****ing piece of **** sucking *** ****ing mother *** licking man ****ing douche **** smelling piece of ****ing **** hole! :)
You really are an idiot. Grow up.
Ummm not quiet the same problem there, obviously water cooling would allow it to go past 4GHz :p
wait why did you buy a 955? Why not just get a 940? £25 cheaper and you would get the same clock speed.
That's not guarenteed and i doubt watercooling would bring him an extra 200 mhz
You really are an idiot. Grow up.
:chairfall::chairfall: that was a pretty big dummy spit out...looking at your dummy I understand why you spat it out...
http://www.funnyreign.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/best-pacifier.jpg
I sense people who used to be banned wish to be banned once again.
wonderlust
27-07-09, 17:58
perhaps a couple of weeks in a foreign country will enable everyone to get on again...
Eh hmmm I didn't start anything here 8) + there is no reason to ban me this time...I've read the rules :)
busman3000
27-07-09, 18:10
Eh hmmm I didn't start anything here 8) + there is no reason to ban me this time...I've read the rules :)
What happened last time...you got me curious now.
If its too bad to say in public send me a pm :chairfall::chairfall::chairfall::chairfall:
PM sent... :p joke :D
It wasn't bad at all...basically in a few words Tystar I think told me to say sorry and I said No and so he banned me...it was kinda boarder line on the rules of the forum so I left it.
busman3000
27-07-09, 19:10
Thanks for the PM :thumbsup:
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